Request for Help-Gun Shop M1 Garand

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DibsInNH	Request for Help-Gun Shop M1 Garand	Lead	[-]
Posts: 5 (12/12/07 09:36 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None My collection consists of WW II standard service rifles from various countries involved in the war. There's a big hole in my collection that needs to be filled by an M1 Garand. Recently, I came across a Springfield M1 at my local gun shop. The receiver/barrel match (3/44) and it has lock bar sights. I believe that it has a Revision 18 bolt which appears to coincide with the mfg date. (Although I can't confirm it in Scott Duff's book.) That's about the extent of the "originalness" of the rifle. The OP rod is marked "NM", the wood has been replaced and the trigger group is IHC. I brought a throat erosion gauge and it measured 4. I don't have a muzzle gauge but it didn't appear to be horrible. The barrel was not pitted but the lands were not very sharp. It's been shot a lot but taken care of. There's a marking on the left side of the barrel near the muzzle (looks like an importer mark) but I couldn't really read it. I know several guys at the shop and trust what they say. I was told that they thought it was a Korean rifle (meaning that it had been used in WW II and then Korea). They are asking $695 for the rifle. My allowance is up to $1,000. My question is this: Do you think it would be worth it to buy this rifle and try to restore it? I've got Scott Duff's books and I'm looking for a project gun. I'm not looking for MOA accuracy but I would like a half decent shooter. I'm looking more for historical accuracy. I've been looking at some of the auctions and haven't seen much. I was planning on getting a "Correct Grade" CMP Garand but all of the Springfields are starting at 5.4 million. So, that rules out WW II. Would I be better off taking my chances with a service grade CMP rifle? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
irishsteven		#1	[-]
Posts: 245 (12/12/07 11:45 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	What they mean by Korean rifle is a large number were used by them,and have been reimported by companies like Blue sky.A rifle with a importers mark will never bring the price that a non marked rifle will when its time to sell.You can spend a lot of money looking for a WW11 stock,and op rod etc,and never get it back when you go to sell it since that barrel mark is a turn off for many.I would look farther myself.
Sgt Rob P		#2	[-]
Posts: 43 (12/13/07 02:21 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	DibsInNH, A matching Barrel, reciever and bolt is a nice start. Correct stock and oprod, etc, etc, will cost some bucks. If you never intend to sell and enjoy the fun of pursueing the correct parts and would enjoy the sence of accomplishment when finally restored, than go for it. $695.00 is a good price for non CMP M1. CMP sells a great M1, but there is no guarante, you may get the WWII reciever by adding a sticky note to your order, but odds are against getting the matching barrel to the reciever, and you'll spend the extra 100.00 bucks and then some to obtain and install the correct barrel. Import marks are already starting to show more acceptance by many collectors and as time goes by I think the marks detriment will completely dissappear. I mean sheesh! the barrel started life here, and then went out to do some mercenary work, and than came back home to semi-retirement. So I personnally could care less about import marks. Except maybe the big nasty ones CAI has been using lately on the Mosin recievers. But the small Blue Sky and Arlington Ordinance barrel marks on their earlier returned M1 Garand and M1 carbine barrels are unobtrusive enough. For what it is worth though, I am by far more shooter oriented than collector oriented, so take my advice for what it is, my personal thoughts only. Some collectors may get all turned off by the import mark. I think it is a personal preference. Semper Fi, Rob
gunslinger586		#3	[-]
Posts: 1828 (12/13/07 09:40 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If you have a grand to spend, I would go to the CMP website and see what that will buy you. You could also go to one of their locations and hand pick your rifle. My trip to Anniston was very pleasant. Having been down the "I can fix it" road myself, I think you will be happier starting out with one of theirs. This is of course only my opinion. Good luck with your purchase.
Rick the Librarian		#4	[-]
Posts: 4443 (12/13/07 11:27 AM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I believe CMP still has some Correct Grade M1s for less than $1000. Although they are post-WWII M1s, they are about the nicest M1s you're going to find for the money on the market.
manzai96782		#5	[-]
Posts: 4 (12/13/07 08:19 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	IMHO.....PASS. There are many collectors who are getting long in the tooth.....they may be selling their collections....or their heirs will/might. If you want a WW2 Garand w/correct parts it'll take some looking........but they can be found. I bought several CMPs and traded parts until I had what I wanted.......the problem is/was that some stuff had to be purchased on e-bay (back when).......but, it's getting more difficult to get parts, at a reasonable price. So perhaps you'll "luck out" and get one with correct parts. Like the guy in another thread (see the Lock Bar thread). He paid $825, for a June '45 rifle. IF, I was collecting.........I'd have to get an earlier one. But, that's me. Wait....I alredy have a May '44. Forget it........I can't afford more? For ser# and month/year of mfn.....check here..... http://www.nps.gov/spar/historyculture/sa-firearms-questions.htm Download and print a copy for your hunt. Aloha, Mark Last Edited By: manzai96782 12/13/07 08:25 PM. Edited 2 times.
manzai96782		#6	[-]
Posts: 5 (12/13/07 08:47 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Getting started on a restoration?? http://www.northcapepubs.com/m1gar.htm BTW.....beside Duff, this guy Poyer has a book too. Aloha, Mark
DibsInNH		#7	[-]
Posts: 6 (12/14/07 09:31 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I want to thank everyone for taking the time to respond. You made a lot of good points. Also, thanks for the links. I think I may take a pass on this one and keep looking. There are a few gun shows coming up and I can price things there. Plus, I know a several of the guys at the local gunshop well so I can have them keep an eye open. I may even try to go the CMP route and get a service grade. Thanks again for your help. Jim
Ranger487		#8	[-]
Posts: 27 (12/14/07 10:38 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	So why does it have to be a all correct WW11 Garand? Even if you restore it , it will never be worth more than the sum of parts. A all correct, unrestored ww11 rifle is impossible to find and if you could find one it would be very, very costlt so much that you wouldn't want to shoot it. Settle for a arseal rebuild, nothing wrong with them they all have history
DUSM		#9	[-]
Posts: 151 (12/16/07 12:06 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	IMHO, you will be better served by getting a CMP Correct Grade. I Have one SA 4.3 mil and 3 HRA corrects, and but for the Greek rack numbers stamped in the butt stock, they are original rifles in superb condition... as nice as my CMP collector grade rifles.. An all correct restored WW2 M1 Rifle (with a real WW2 inspected stock) will generally tip the scales at more than $1000 these days, with original rifles more than doubling your budget at entry level (very late WW2). Gathering all correct parts and wood to restore a WW2 rifle will cost as much if not more than buying a complete correct rifle, and you will not recoup your investment for a long time. Correct original unrestored WW2 rifles are not impossible to find, they are out there... It is all a matter of how much you are willing to spend. You have to do your research first, and become educated in your area of interest. Early war rifles are the most expensive (One of my '41 lend lease M1s with the red painted band ran $4300 a couple of years ago). You can still find original late war rifles (mid '45) in the $2000 range if you look hard enough, and it will be a good investment.
DibsInNH	Update	#10	[-]
Posts: 7 (08/11/08 08:51 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well...I passed on the gunshop Garand and ordered one through CMP. I received the rifle and it was a great rifle in great shape. However, it was post-WWII. As much as I love the Garand, this rifle did nothing for me. I had no connection because it wasn't a WW II Garand. However, the story does not end there. The Garand that I'd looked at in the gunshop was long gone. I mentioned to my shooting buddy my lament about a post-war Garand. It turns out that he bought the very Garand that I'd been looking at in the shop. He didn't care if his Garand was post-war or not. So, we worked out a trade and, as a thank you, I threw in a 100+ rounds of 30-06 on en bloc clips. So, here she is... a 2.7 million Springfield with matching 3/44 dated barrel and lock bar sights. The front and rear handguard could be original. However, the stock itself has been replaced. The trigger group is a mix-master of Springfield and Winchester parts. The Op rod is NM. As you can see, trigger guard is milled.
petersalt		#11	[-]
Posts: 759 (08/12/08 11:00 PM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Good outcome!! I may suspect you'd planned out that sequence in detail.... suerte, gluck, peterNaCl
Sgt Rob P		#12	[-]
Posts: 121 (08/13/08 03:02 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Nice Looking M1! I am glad it worked out for ya!
DibsInNH		#13	[-]
Posts: 8 (08/14/08 10:12 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks!!! I'm really glad that it worked out too. Now, all I need is a GAW stock, -9 (I believe) Op Rod and a few other parts in the trigger group and I'll be good to go. Can someone tell me if I have the correct lock bar sight? I looked in Scott Duff's book but couldn't determine for sure. Is this type 2 lockbar? type 3 lockbar? SA or Win? Please let me know. Thanks!
RichieRich3902		#14	[-]
Posts: 1265 (08/14/08 11:49 AM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Your rifle is wearing a type 2 Springfield manufactured lock bar sight. I think I have a spare -9 op-rod in my parts box, I know there are three in there that I am saving for a restoration. I'll need to get my book out to see if you need a flat or curved side op-rod. Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once. -William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar
DibsInNH		#15	[-]
Posts: 9 (08/14/08 11:05 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	RichieRich, I checked Duff's book and, from what I can tell, I need a -9 curved. Here's what I have and what I believe that I need. Anyone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong. MFG Springfield SERIAL# 2716XXX DATE MFG 3/44 RECEIVER DRAWING LOT# D28291 32 HEAT LOT# Y 02 <> BARREL SIDE MARKING 2-S-A-3 44 BOLT DRAWING# D28287-18SA HEAT LOT# O11B<> OPERATING ROD 7790722-RA (NM) NEED D35382-9 SA CURVED TRIGGER GROUP TRIGGER HOUSING 6528290IHC NEED D28290-12SA TRIGGER GUARD Milled HAMMER C46008-7 SA NEED C46008-5SA SAFETY WRA-1 NEED SA-11 BULLET GUIDE STAMPED POST WW-II NEED MILLED CLIP LATCH SQUARE FOLLOWER ASSEMBLY 12 FOLLOWER ROD LONG FORKED, STAMPED, RIVETED LOWER BAND FLAT (I BELIEVE) REAR HANDGUARD CLIP STAMPED GAS CYLINDER WIDE SIGHT BASE GAS CYLINDER PLUG POPPET VALVE TYPE [PO-HENRY OWENS COMPANY, BOSTON ORD DISTRICT] REAR SIGHT LOCK BAR TYPE II If anyone needs one (or more) of the parts that are not specific for my rifle, please pm me. Thanks. Jim