[Surplus Rifle.Com's New Article:]
Slug, Measure, & Match: Using the Right Bullet for the Right Barrel Diameter
By Mark Trope & R. Ted Jeo
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mauserand9mm |
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And paying attention is sometimes the problem - I've also seen a guy with a semi-auto 9mm pistol rack the slide and was about to fire the next round after
the previous just one went click. Fortunately a close bystander (off-duty range officer) got his attention and stopped him. Sure enough there was a projectile
stuck in the barrel - apparantly he had forgotten to put powder in that case and was only powered by the primer. The shooter was an otherwise level headed guy
but got caught up in the 'heat of the match' - it was one of the more rapid fire events. People don't always think straight in pressure/stress
situations.
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matm0702 |
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Guys, I'm so cheap on gallery stuff that I use .311 lead balls for Cap & ball black powder revolvers in unsized brass. 3-4 grains of red dot and
a pinch of cotton in a 303 produces approx 900fps and 1 inch groups at 25 yards. They're also nasty pest control rounds the are quieter than .22 LR
subsonics. Have had no issues with squib loads
with this arrangement. Mike |
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Mountain Doctor |
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How do you seat the balls? Any issues with barrel leading from the soft pure lead balls?
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Parashooter |
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There are at least three ways to seat a round ball in a cartridge case -
1. Just enough to hold it. No lube. Minimal leading at low velocity. 2. Just enough to hold - over grease wad. 3. Flush or below mouth - lube smeared on top. As for seating technique, same as a regular bullet - with or without crimp. There are also some "collar button" designs intended to match the weight of a round ball but give more bearing -
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bckskin2 |
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I reload .311 100 gr JHP I think it's an XTP, haven't done any for a while in Enfield with Unique. Really blows up milk jugs and pretty accurate.
I also load some .318 pure lead balls with a .22 lr case of unique. They were suprisingly accurate and penatrated a big chunk of oak. I hear red dot works too. I just wondered about the .311 FMJ down a .308 barrel. If I had a .32 ACP I would buy the adapter, but I already have the .303 dies. I would love to find a similar load for my Turk. Jerry |
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matm0702 |
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Hi Mountain Doc
I seat the lead balls with a wood handle till the ball is seated flush with the case mouth. I then add enough liquid alox to seal the case mouth. No leading so far as velocity is around 900 fps. Its potent enough to go thru a 40 lb bag of potting soil and flatten out as big as a nickel on a cinder block behind it ( I know poor backstop) and I did this in my back yard. Now if I could make these for my 8x57. Mike |
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gschwertley |
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Using care, caution, and common sense, I've loaded reduced charge cartridges of different recipes for years. I also like the chamber inserts; I've got
one for .32 ACP in 7.5x55mm Swiss; .32 ACP in .30-30 Win.; and .32 H&R Mag. in .30-30 Win.
With .32 pistol bullets, there's no sweat about shooting them in .308 bores. Small bullets with such a short bearing surface swage right down to the bore size. To those who ask why, the biggest reason I can think of is to make a rifle a more versatile weapon. There are times when a full-charge load is not only not needed, but not desireable. |
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Mountain Doctor |
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Is it hard to remove the insert? I'd worry about getting it stuck.
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Parashooter |
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These pistol-cartridge inserts for rifles extract just like a normal spent cartridge case and could stick for some of the same reasons - dirt, corrosion,
undersize chamber, oversize insert. If rifle and insert are clean and correctly-dimensioned there should be no extraction issues.
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doug henry |
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How is the 32APC case ejected?
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Parashooter |
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This type of insert extracts (and looks) like a steel cartridge case. If the empty .32 pistol case doesn't fall out, one pokes it with a pencil or other suitable rod. The insert does not remain in the chamber. The long jump to the rifling can make accuracy problematical, especially with non-jacketed bullets. A somewhat more sophisticated type of adapter places the small cartridge at the front, with an internal striker to transfer energy from the rifle's firing pin to the primer. This type will sometimes feed from the magazine.
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eb in oregon |
Ejected? | ||
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The fired case is poked out with a rod and then reloaded. The insert is basically treated as a round, however inserted into the chamber (usually) as a single
case. As there is no bullet projecting as in a normal case there may be a feeding problem from the standard magazine.
For clarification. I have no problem with "gallery loads" or reduced loads in high power rifles. I do however have a problem with loads that are reduced to such minimum power as to need a cleaning rod handy to remove stuck bullets. The difference in powder necessary to insure each bullets exit, or have one occasionally lodge in the bore, seems pretty small. And as already mentioned, posting loads on this, or any other web site, that require the shooter to poke out the occasional lodged bullet with a cleaning rod is slightly irresponsible in my opinion. It seems that great pains have been taken by this sites owner and the hosts and moderators to insure that only absolutely safe information is posted. And as a life long shooter and re-loader I understand the ramifications of bore obstructions. Also as a life long shooter and re-loader I would not be telling the truth if I said that I've never had one. However out of the many thousands of cartridges that I have reloaded, I have only had two bullets lodge in the bore of my firearm. Both of these bullets were a result of the "learning curve" associated with a progressive press, i.e. not paying close enough to the powder level in the measure and not looking in each and every case that is being loaded. However, as mauserand9mm pointed out, as well as several others, it was my paying attention that enabled me to avoid a dangerous situation. If a person feels the need to shoot "gallery," or reduced loads, that is their prerogative and their responsibility for unintended results. The problem here is that the posting of some of this information may involve a reader not fully reading the material, nor totally understanding that the unintended consequences of a bore obstruction can be devastating or lethal. Using care, caution, and common sense That my friends is not always a part of the equation, nor is it present in all people. I myself choose to shoot full power loads from my milsurps as that is what they were designed and intended to do. If I want something easier on the shoulder I'll pull out the .22 LR or the .17 Mach II, but that's just me. This is America and a person can shoot what ever they so choose. I am however reminded on an almost daily basis as to the sorry state of affairs regarding liability laws and how far they can reach into our society. I choose to not get anywhere close to that particular bucket of worms. Respectfully, Eric
"We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."
Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776 |
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Parashooter |
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I don't think anybody is recommending specific loads in this thread (unless you consider "a couple grains of Bullsye, Red Dot, or 700X"
specific). Rather, we're dealing with the concept of minimal loads. Part of that concept is "working down" loads (in contrast to
the usual "working up"). That process involves being prepared to deal with stuck bullets. This is not a new or threatening idea, as can be seen in
this excerpt from a handloading book published by the NRA -
Although the author is dealing with revolver loads (and has more faith in the "beginning reloader" than I do), the basic concept is equally valid for rifles. If we limit our discussions to information that cannot possibly be misconstrued by children, poor readers, or just ordinary fools, we won't have much to talk about on a handloading forum. |
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gschwertley |
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Yes, there are a couple of different designs of the chamber inserts. One, is the type pictured above originally made by Marble's. The one I have that is
.32 ACP in 7.5x55mm Swiss is of this design and was made by Alex Inc. of Manhattan, MT. It has the hollow casing where the .32 cartridge fits way up front and
the .32 case actually forms the neck of the insert when placed in the chamber of the rifle. These are a little more work to use as the pistol cartridge is
held in place in the casing by a plug (that has its own tiny firing pin) which must be removed each time a fired case is to be removed and a fresh cartridge
inserted.
The other type of chamber insert design is a simple steel sleeve with a long smooth more from the mouth of the case to where the insert leads into the rifle barrel. In this design, the rifle firing pin strikes directly on the cartridge primer. I forget who makes these; they used to be advertised in SGN. Currently, the lawyers at Sportsman's Guide allow the store to sell them. To date, I have never had a problem extracting the insert from the rifle or the fired case from the insert of either design. These are also called caliber conversion sleeves. The idea of making a single weapon more versatile with chamber inserts, conversion sleeves, and subcaliber devices isn't new or esoteric. These inserts have been available for many years. Subcaliber devices have long been used by some military organizations as a means of providing economical target practice in full-bore weapons, or for use where range facilities are limited. Subcaliber sleeves are made for shotguns, both for metallic cartridges and smaller shotgun gauges/bores. I'm going to play the Devil's advocate here for a moment. Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the NRA doesn't publish much handloading material in American Rifleman anymore? Could it be that even they have gotten a bit gun shy of potential liability? (pardon the pun) |
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