Aw Nuts! (M91 SCW, I think)

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tep0583	Aw Nuts! (M91 SCW, I think)	Lead	[-]
Posts: 483 (06/26/09 01:57 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None OK, guys, tell me how bad I screwed up. Went into one of my favorite stores today and noticed a M91 with the 'Made in USSR' stamp on it. I mistakenly took that for an import mark and just realized it was a Spanish Civil War M91 in original condition (for SCW rifles) The rifle is in overall rough condition. The bore is well-defined, but dark and in need of a good cleaning. The stock is sold and shows character, but is missing the hand guard and the left rear Sling Escutcheon. Its obviously seen some use. The bluing is probably around 60% or so. The receiver is a 1916, but I'm not sure who made it. They were asking $195. Should I be kicking myself hard or does the condition warrant more moderate self-loathing?
Pahtu		#1	[-]
Posts: 2273 (06/26/09 08:16 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	"They were asking $195." SCW 91-30s are the most common find, SCW M91s? They do not come up for sale very often.... 195.00 for one that needs a little work....A very good buy...IMO... Pahtu.
eagle7		#2	[-]
Posts: 3969 (06/26/09 09:48 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	How do you know the receiver is 1916 vintage, did you take it apart and check the underside of the tang? Maybe it's an older receiver that was rebarreled with a 1916 barrel. $195 sounds like a good buy if the stock doesn't have any serious cracks and the bore can be cleaned.
tep0583		#3	[-]
Posts: 485 (06/26/09 12:24 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Good point about the barrel. I should have said the barrel date is 1916. The stock has some chips, nicks and gouges, but no major cracks I saw, and I looked it over pretty good. The bore shows some shine in areas, but I'm not sure how well it will clean up. Pathu, I'm sure its a M91. Sounds like I should have bought it. I'm back in the area today for work. I might have to swing by, when they get done working me like a dog.
tep0583		#4	[-]
Posts: 489 (06/29/09 01:05 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	OK, went back this morning and they still had it. After some "negotiations", I managed to leave with it for $180! It does seem to be solid and well-used. Even though I "knew" it was an M91, I did a quick measurement for verification and its definitely a M91. Since I'm at work, I've not gottten a chance to take pictures or strip it for further details. I'll try to get some pictures up tonight. Thanks for the help, guys. As always, its much appreciated.
tep0583		#5	[-]
Posts: 490 (06/29/09 10:36 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Pictures up. Note the missing sling escutcheon and hand guard. This stamp, I understand makes it a SCW rifle. Barrel date is 1916. I'll try to get a picture of the tang in a couple of days. Per my usual luck, there is no clear tang date. Stock repair. Part of the cocking piece has been filed down at some point, but it doesn't look to be a bubba job. Pretty well done. It cannot be seen here, however. Sights still sport the original arshin markings. The first couple dozen patches to come through the bore came out FILTHY. The barrel is going to take a lot of work to clean. I'm going to take a shot at it with my foaming bore cleaner, once I figure out what I did with it. The ejector is broken, too, so I'll have to locate one of them, but I'm sure that should be pretty easy. If I want to replace the missing hand guard, would an original M91 style be correct or were all of them replaced by the Spanish with their style?
zeebill		#6	[-]
Posts: 3638 (06/30/09 07:41 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I think you did well! SCW home made (in Spain) hand guards tend to be very crude. A regular Russian made hand guard would to my thoughts be just fine. I see a circle B on there and if I remember right that means the Bulgarians had ownership at one time adding to the history of SCW vintage. The filed cocking piece is saying vintage Finnish modification to me and I begin to wonder maybe if this might be a conglomeration of parts someone has assembled but there is to my way of thinking no way to really tell. and the rifle really talks to me so frankly I wouldn't really care! Just finding an unscrubbed with eagles M91 is an accomplishment in today's market and for the price you paid a buy! I have little faith in foaming bore cleaner after the Remington I have been working on here for over a month now. It takes some of the black out but does little else from what I observe. I think a brass or even stainless in the extreme bore condition case and lots of time and patches with multiple cleaners seems to do the best job. Following that with hot cleaning at the range and more work at home seems to be the overall answer to me. Either way Congrats on an interesting rifle and have fun fixing it up to shoot and enjoy! Thanks much for sharing the pictures with us too! Bill ELT
eagle7		#7	[-]
Posts: 3973 (06/30/09 08:55 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Very nice rifle. It still has both of the Romanov eagle stamps intact. I've noticed that a some MNs have some of the knurling filed off the cocking piece, usually on the area near the receiver tang. IIRC somebody on GunBroker has some M91 handguards up for auction.
zippyhuntin		#8	[-]
Posts: 8 (06/30/09 10:33 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	tep0583 said: Part of the cocking piece has been filed down at some point, but it doesn't look to be a bubba job. If you mean the bottom of the knurled part, it's an early style cocking piece. The diameter was larger and needed to be relieved so it wouldn't drag on the rear of the receiver. Look about 1/4 down the page... http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinFeatures01.htm Nice rifle!
tep0583		#9	[-]
Posts: 491 (06/30/09 11:51 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	zippyhuntin wrote: tep0583 said: Part of the cocking piece has been filed down at some point, but it doesn't look to be a bubba job. If you mean the bottom of the knurled part, it's an early style cocking piece. The diameter was larger and needed to be relieved so it wouldn't drag on the rear of the receiver. Look about 1/4 down the page... http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinFeatures01.htm Nice rifle! That's exactly what it looks like! Thanks for pointing that out. I never cease to learn something from this site and from the people who contribute to it. Eagle7, I'll take a look for those hand guards, thanks for the heads-up!
tep0583		#10	[-]
Posts: 492 (06/30/09 12:32 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	zeebill wrote: I think you did well! SCW home made (in Spain) hand guards tend to be very crude. A regular Russian made hand guard would to my thoughts be just fine. I see a circle B on there and if I remember right that means the Bulgarians had ownership at one time adding to the history of SCW vintage. The filed cocking piece is saying vintage Finnish modification to me and I begin to wonder maybe if this might be a conglomeration of parts someone has assembled but there is to my way of thinking no way to really tell. and the rifle really talks to me so frankly I wouldn't really care! Just finding an unscrubbed with eagles M91 is an accomplishment in today's market and for the price you paid a buy! I have little faith in foaming bore cleaner after the Remington I have been working on here for over a month now. It takes some of the black out but does little else from what I observe. I think a brass or even stainless in the extreme bore condition case and lots of time and patches with multiple cleaners seems to do the best job. Following that with hot cleaning at the range and more work at home seems to be the overall answer to me. Either way Congrats on an interesting rifle and have fun fixing it up to shoot and enjoy! Thanks much for sharing the pictures with us too! Bill ELT As always, Bill, I take your approval as high praise. I'm glad I decided to research this rifle. I had passed on it a couple of times, thinking I have "enough" M91s and in better condition, too. It didn't occur to me at first that I might be looking at something different that would be a worthy addition to the collection. All that proves is what I bonehead I can be at times. I'll have to follow up on the possible Bulgarian markings. One of the things I love about these rifles is the "detective" work you can put into them, trying to identify as much of their history as is possible. Some of these old rifles have seen interesting times indeed! The Russian hand guard sounds fine, to me and I'll pursue that option. Is there any place better then Numrich to get an ejector for this?
Sgt LaBelle		#11	[-]
Posts: 41 (06/30/09 05:01 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Nice score. Here's some info I came across while I was researching my SCW 91. Mine did not have the Spanish cartuche on the stock. 91/30 SCW Mosins seem to be more abundent around here. Great find! http://hubpages.com/hub/Soviet-Model-9130-Mosin-Nagant-Rifle
tep0583		#12	[-]
Posts: 493 (06/30/09 10:32 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	This one doesn't have the stock cartuche, either. Zeebill was right, though, it does have a Bulgarian property mark on it.
stantheman1986		#13	[-]
Posts: 5425 (07/05/09 07:29 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Oh yeah, I would have bought it! If the wear to the bluing is consistent with the rest of the metal, chances are it has been without a handguard for a while.I have an M91 that looks like it was used without a handguard for a long time, so I left it off. Most M91's have more intact bluing under the handguard. IMO the M91's handguards are troublesome if the little studs that hold the bands from sliding forward are worn down or broken, as recoil will throw the handguard forward and take the front band with it. I have had to add little brass screws to most of my beat up 91's.
Savage110		#14	[-]
Posts: 5 (07/05/09 08:43 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Nice find, I would have bought it also. Someone has some sling esch on e-bay item # 370223919146 it shows for Finnish 91/30 but I think that they are the same. ( located in Finland ) I think they may be hard to find. It's the first ones that I have seen for sale.
stantheman1986		#15	[-]
Posts: 5427 (07/06/09 11:35 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Does it look like the escutcheon fell out or was taken out? I have a few battle scarred rifles that are missing some non-essential parts and I just leave them as is.
keithreid		#16	[-]
Posts: 767 (07/06/09 04:06 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	do the wear patterns in the blue on the barrel indicate that it had a handguard? many of these were issued and used without them. good snag, the m91's from spain and dragoons from there are hard finds. check the "ejector" for dirt in the receiver groove. an 1916 izhevsk would have had a type 1, 1 piece interrupter originally. the later 2 piece interrupters will work. I believe www.buymilsurp.com in florida lists both types for sale if yours is broken. congrats on a nice rifle! y'all have a good day, Keith
Pahtu		#17	[-]
Posts: 2276 (07/06/09 04:13 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Wonderful find! Simply cool! I would replace the missing parts - The handguard as mentioned above could be replaced, or not, either way would be OK for a SCW M1891. Nice gun! This outfit has some parts listed for sale.... http://www.ssporters.com/parts/Russian%20M91.htm Pahtu.
tep0583		#18	[-]
Posts: 498 (07/07/09 09:12 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	keithreid wrote: do the wear patterns in the blue on the barrel indicate that it had a handguard? many of these were issued and used without them. good snag, the m91's from spain and dragoons from there are hard finds. check the "ejector" for dirt in the receiver groove. an 1916 izhevsk would have had a type 1, 1 piece interrupter originally. the later 2 piece interrupters will work. I believe www.buymilsurp.com in florida lists both types for sale if yours is broken. congrats on a nice rifle! y'all have a good day, Keith The bluing is pretty consistent. If it had one, it hasn't been on it in a long time. The ejector was a one-piece type, but snapped about 1/4" from the screw. I have the old part(s) and its a "clean" break. I'll get one ordered, thanks for the site!
tep0583		#19	[-]
Posts: 499 (07/07/09 09:20 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	stantheman1986 wrote: Does it look like the escutcheon fell out or was taken out? I have a few battle scarred rifles that are missing some non-essential parts and I just leave them as is. Hard to say. there is damage around the recess for it, but not THAT much. Here's some detail shots of the area. What do you think?
tep0583		#20	[-]
Posts: 500 (07/07/09 09:22 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Pahtu wrote: Wonderful find! Simply cool! I would replace the missing parts - The handguard as mentioned above could be replaced, or not, either way would be OK for a SCW M1891. Nice gun! This outfit has some parts listed for sale.... http://www.ssporters.com/parts/Russian%20M91.htm Pahtu. Thanks! I think I will consider replacing the escutcheon. I'm not sure if I want to leave it out, as it is part of the history of the rifle. I think I'm going to get one and decide later. The hand guard has been "missing" for a while. I think I'll leave it off.