...and now for something completely different

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blackthorn762	...and now for something completely different	Lead	[-]
Posts: 26 (10/07/09 09:45 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None I picked this rifle up recently. Thought it was interesting, even if the is a much better that even chance that the magazine is a reproduction. But for the price, it was hard to pass up considering that even repop Trench Magazines are bringing around $65 + shipping. The rifle itself is a bit rough and dirty as heck...I'll see how she looks after a #0000 steel wool and oil "washing." At any rate, until then, here she is...Branko saw the previous pictures I had posted and said that though a 24/47 with a Trench Magazine had never been seen, the fact that it is from "Radionica 124", it is POSSIBLE that some experimentation with this combination of rifle and magazine may have occurred. Is it likely that I would have stumbled across one of - if not the only - authentic example of something like this. Well, I was born, but it wasn't yesterday In any case...enjoy and feel free to comment. Oh, one last thing...is it me, or does that crest on the receiver ring look a little off to anyone else? The Second Amendment: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY No one carries a greater obligation to exemplify the ideals of Respect & Responsibility - The Foundation of Freedom - than the person who carries a firearm!
nothernug		#1	[-]
Posts: 11438 (10/08/09 12:29 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Interesting for sure. The crest does look a little different. Can you post or send me a bigger pic? Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
Slipped		#2	[-]
Posts: 11 (10/08/09 05:06 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Coooool. Make sure you post pics after its bath. What do the markings on the side mean? I have "preduzece" 44 igt seems yours are 124?<--- is this the factory code where the rifles were built?
blackthorn762	Larger Crest	#3	[-]
Posts: 27 (10/08/09 09:18 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	nothernug wrote: Interesting for sure. The crest does look a little different. Can you post or send me a bigger pic? The Second Amendment: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY No one carries a greater obligation to exemplify the ideals of Respect & Responsibility - The Foundation of Freedom - than the person who carries a firearm!
blackthorn762		#4	[-]
Posts: 28 (10/08/09 09:29 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Slipped wrote: Coooool. Make sure you post pics after its bath. What do the markings on the side mean? I have "preduzece" 44 igt seems yours are 124?<--- is this the factory code where the rifles were built? It translates to RADIONICA 124 (Work Shop 124) It and RADIONICA 145 are both listed in Branko's book, and I've seen reference to both elsewhere, though where they were located seems to be a mystery. If I'm not mistaken, RADIONICA 124 was where all captured K98k rifles where reworked. After the war, it was obviously one of the places that did the M24/47 rework. ...and you can rest assured that pictures of the "bathed" rifle and a range report will be forthcoming in the very near future. The Second Amendment: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY No one carries a greater obligation to exemplify the ideals of Respect & Responsibility - The Foundation of Freedom - than the person who carries a firearm!
nothernug		#5	[-]
Posts: 11440 (10/08/09 09:36 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yeah, that's one I've not seen before and I have another or more Rad124 crest(s) on file. Thanks! "Preduzece 44 = factory 44, the primary Yugo arms works at Kragujevac. Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
Aubullet		#6	[-]
Posts: 1337 (10/08/09 09:43 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Could that extended magazine have been something that was done to increase the fire-power of this old warhorse, during the more recent unpleasantness in the Balkans region?
blackthorn762		#7	[-]
Posts: 30 (10/08/09 10:27 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Aubullet wrote: Could that extended magazine have been something that was done to increase the fire-power of this old warhorse, during the more recent unpleasantness in the Balkans region? The short answer to your question is yes. However, being the long-winded individual that I am, here is a little history I learned while researching this rifle before bidding on it. This type of magazine - known as a "Trench Magazine" - was originally used in WWI on the Gewehr 98 to increase the amount of lead that could be shot down range before the need to reload. This was one way of warding off the enemy's attempt to charge your position. Your question was also one of Branko's thoughts when I posted the original pictures from the rifle's auction. From what I gather, there aren't many authentic "Trench Magazines" around and the reproductions SUPPOSEDLY are accurate down to the manufacturer's stamps. That, and the fact that this is an item that doesn't seem to have many experts on, makes it difficult to authenticate. Branko also felt that, since the rifle is from RADIONICA 124, there is the possibility that it was an experimental type project based Gewehr 98 configuration. Bear in mind that the Kingdom of Serbia, and then later Yugoslavia, had been procuring Mauser rifles from numerous countries for many years and could well have acquired a number of rifles with "Trench Magazines" after the end of WWI. The Second Amendment: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY No one carries a greater obligation to exemplify the ideals of Respect & Responsibility - The Foundation of Freedom - than the person who carries a firearm!
blackthorn762	Experimentation...	#8	[-]
Posts: 31 (10/08/09 02:50 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	OK, I have established that the "Trench Magazine" fits, though somewhat loosely - which I believe is just a matter of adjusting the front tang back to it's "normal" position - the K98k magazine well. This is not surprising considering that this style of "Trench Magazine" was developed in WWII for the K98(k) and is NOT the one used in WWI with the Gewehr 98. It is also now clear that it was NOT designed to fit the magazine well of an Intermediate Action Mauser as the front tang had to be modified in order to make it fit. Based on all of this, I am now firmly convinced that the magazine on that rifle is a reproduction. A very nice reproduction by all accounts, but a reproduction none-the-less. Depending on where you buy it they run between $25 - $85. The typical price seems to be right around $60 + Shipping. Lastly, it seems EXTREMELY unlikely that this is a "field expedient" addition by a participant of the Bosnian War and more likely the work of "Bubba". Oh well, at least the value of the sum of the parts is still higher than what I paid for the rifle, so not all is lost. I was looking for an M24/47 to make a replica Bosnian Sniper out of. Considering the condition of this rifle ( not excellent but certainly not bad) and all of the accounts that tell of turning anything the could shoot reasonably straight into a sniper rifle during that time, this may fit the bill better than anything else I have found. Somehow, with a little "cleaning" and the addition of a "field expedient" scope...maybe I can create my own little replica piece of history. Heck, I may even use the "Trench Magazine" with the K98k barreled action I have, find a correct stock (I probably have most the correct hardware already) and replicate that rifle also. I can't afford the real thing, assuming they could even be found, but I sure can put the sweat equity into replicating a few of these unusual pieces. Thanks for all the help and inspiration! --BT762 The Second Amendment: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY No one carries a greater obligation to exemplify the ideals of Respect & Responsibility - The Foundation of Freedom - than the person who carries a firearm! Last Edited By: blackthorn762 10/08/09 02:55 PM. Edited 1 times.
nothernug		#9	[-]
Posts: 11441 (10/09/09 12:52 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The Rad124 rifles are far fewer between than most others. you might do well to 'restore' it to the Yugo refurb status, and get or trade + cash for a more ordinary model. my .02, your rifle, your call. At this point, I must note that your conversion to a "Bosnian sniper" will involve D&T'ing the receiver, a permanent alteration. That constitutes sporterizing and discussion of such topics is against our rules. Even though your converting to an established type, the procedures are the same and I must ask that you not discuss the details of that conversion here. Ok? Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
blackthorn762		#10	[-]
Posts: 32 (10/09/09 09:24 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	nothernug wrote: The Rad124 rifles are far fewer between than most others. you might do well to 'restore' it to the Yugo refurb status, and get or trade + cash for a more ordinary model. my .02, your rifle, your call. At this point, I must note that your conversion to a "Bosnian sniper" will involve D&T'ing the receiver, a permanent alteration. That constitutes sporterizing and discussion of such topics is against our rules. Even though your converting to an established type, the procedures are the same and I must ask that you not discuss the details of that conversion here. Ok? Sorry Nug, I didn't think that converting from one type of rifle to another that would have involved D&Ting, even if it would have been done by the country producing the rifle in an effort to produce a historically correct replica was a violation. I do understand that a firm line has to be drawn though, since many tend to be able to find any number of reasons to justify pushing into and beyond the "gray areas" My apologies. Regarding the restoration of the Rad-124, I had already seriously considered your suggestion as an alternative option, particularly since the only part that is not number matching is the trigger guard and the magazine assembly, which is missing due to the addition of the Trench Magazine and has been lost. Naturall, I would have to find a replacement for that. BTW, I also have an Preduzece 44 M24/47 with a mismatched bolt... Again, I'll keep in mind that ANY permanent alteration, regardless of purpose, is considered "sporterizing". My apologies. --BT762 The Second Amendment: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY No one carries a greater obligation to exemplify the ideals of Respect & Responsibility - The Foundation of Freedom - than the person who carries a firearm! Last Edited By: blackthorn762 10/09/09 09:31 AM. Edited 1 times.
nothernug		#11	[-]
Posts: 11448 (10/10/09 12:47 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	"I didn't think that converting from one type of rifle to another that would have involved D&Ting, even if it would have been done by the country producing the rifle in an effort to produce a historically correct replica was a violation." The rules state "No permanent alterations..." and it is perhaps the founding principle upon which this site was erected. Concerning your reasoning, I know of a number of folks here who have mounted Zrak scopes on their Yugos. Correct in appearance, yes. Original? No. They don't generally discuss the processes employed here either. Therefore, I call upon precedent too, in making my decision. It's certainly nothing personal. Ok? Then, just for the sake of historical interest, there's this. As an article of Yugoslavian military issue, they never did officially scope a 24/47 or any other of their refurbed mausers. No telling what may have been experimented with or concocted at the unit level. Now, with the M48 series, they did do an experimental run of some 4000+ with Yugo copies of the Russian PU scope. But none were issued. So historically speaking, a scoped Mauser rifle of the Yugoslavian era would not be correct. Of course, anything might have been done in the 'troubles' of the 90s. Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
blackthorn762		#12	[-]
Posts: 33 (10/10/09 10:46 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	No offense taken. It would appear that I just wasn't clear on exactly where the line was. Now I am. Thanks BT762 The Second Amendment: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY No one carries a greater obligation to exemplify the ideals of Respect & Responsibility - The Foundation of Freedom - than the person who carries a firearm!
painterjohn		#13	[-]
Posts: 55 (10/13/09 06:49 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi Blackthorn..Nice been there done that Rad 124..I'm late to the discussion but will say your view that the Trench mag is a repro is correct..I have one exact to the ..well everything..yours and mine are Very very well made, whoever was making these was as good as the original makers IMO..Your rifle is pretty easy to put back to speck the triggerguard is More often than not not restamped to match anyway..yes some are and with the letter prefix but most I've seen are not..even the floorplate is often a struck out original # with the new added again most often without letter prefix..Nice 124 you should keep it, they are a lot harder to find than an un numbered floorplate
blackthorn762	Restoring to original...	#14	[-]
Posts: 35 (10/13/09 08:23 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks to all for the input. I agree that it makes the most sense to restore the RAD-124 to original since all it will require is a complete magazine assembly. The Trench Magazine wasn't designed to be used on an intermediate action in the first place and, since I have a 1943 K98k CE barreled receiver that is in search of a stock, I'm going to restore that one and keep the Trench Magazine as an interchangeable part. I can use it to show an example of the what was done to some rifles during WWII. Since either part is a matter of placing one with the other and vis-verse by just operating the latch mechanize, no permanent changes will be made and the magazine will be correct to the rifle, making it all good The Second Amendment: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY No one carries a greater obligation to exemplify the ideals of Respect & Responsibility - The Foundation of Freedom - than the person who carries a firearm!
nothernug		#15	[-]
Posts: 11457 (10/13/09 10:03 AM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'm glad no offense was taken. Too often it is. Also, it's clear you have a lot to contribute. we'd be glad to see that 124 again when you get it restored. Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Will Rogers