If an AK-47 in original configuration is not an option ... ?

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Aubullet	If an AK-47 in original configuration is not an option ... ?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1432 (11/17/09 11:16 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Then what would be the next best thing to get, to have a quick handling semi-auto with moderate mid-range power, at a bargain price for a tight budget in an unconstitutional state where the Bill of Rights is held hostage? SKS of some Eastern Block type, that isn't in an illegal configuration? Romanian WASR 10 (AKM AK-47)? Ruger Mini-14/30? M1 carbine? AR-15 Other? Assuming ammo costs are not a factor? Assuming that they are? It's more than likely nothing is going to come of this, but I'd appreciate any and all thoughts!
gpschmidt		#1	[-]
Posts: 748 (11/17/09 11:32 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'd go a WASR, assuming you can inspect it before you buy it. Greg
trautert		#2	[-]
Posts: 5373 (11/17/09 11:56 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'm in that same Left Coast situation. Been seriously thinking about a Bullet-button configured AR-type in 5.56 for my oldest son and myself (his in M4 config since that's what he plays with on weekends and mine in a retro A1-look). Thinking of building the lowers from stripped S&W 15s. Later, I would like to do a .308 AR-10 type lower and mate it to a .338 upper. We aresystematically gaining ground here in our long gun options, but of course, all good progress could go away with one bad court decision. Tom Ne Desit Virtus Rakkasans
high speed cruise		#3	[-]
Posts: 3275 (11/18/09 10:29 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Aubullet, Personally, I'd move. Building an AR is about the very best bet. You could do it in 5.45 or even 7.62x39 if you want. There is a company that makes a lower mod that allows AK 47 mags to be used. hsc
Aubullet		#4	[-]
Posts: 1438 (11/18/09 10:53 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Leaving the problem behind won't fix it. The place is far too wonderful to just leave to the Libtards. If we don't stay and fix it here, it will be where you live next!!! I can be in Nevada in 30 minutes if it comes to that, or I can just stay home knowing that geographically this place "is Nevada" thus well insulated physically, from the problem parts of the Left Coast, especially in winter. Building AR's ain't all that economical from what I've seen, but I can do that here anyway, with some limitations, AK 47 mags being one of them. I'm leaning towards the WASR and the Ruger, but I will look a bit deeper into a possible AR build. It does have to be very affordable!
trautert		#5	[-]
Posts: 5375 (11/18/09 11:06 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'm watching the whole build an AR process very closely right now. Also watching the prices of components for lowers and uppers, as well as complete assemblies and complete rifles. Partly, I want to build one just because I can, and because big brother doesn't like it. One really big plus is that once you build a decent lower, and that isn't all that expensive, you can buy various uppers in different calibers, configurations, etc. So the lower build becomes the basis of several different rifles (including .22 lr). Excuses to have even more gun. And like we talk about on the calguns.net board, the more of these we either build or buy in California, the more "common usage" we have when it comes into a courtroom. Tom Ne Desit Virtus Rakkasans
gpschmidt		#6	[-]
Posts: 750 (11/19/09 02:52 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	At the time, pre-Obama, it cost me about $300 to build an Romanian AK. My A1 clone build (assembly, really) with used Colt A1 parts was about twice that. Surplus 7.62 is still far more available than Lake City .223. Greg
Bundook		#7	[-]
Posts: 537 (11/19/09 10:32 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	AU, Based on your question, I think your best bet is probably the Ruger Mini 30. The 7.62x39 is an excellent medium-powered round with good cross sectional density. I personally prefer it to the .223 -- which are just LOUD. You mentioned the M1 Carbine, but unfortunately, the 30 Carbine round is a joke. But if you like the Carbine action, then you'll certainly like the Ruger. People say the Mini 14/30 isn't all that accurate, probably true, but neither are the AK clones. Since I have no gunsmithing skills, I cannot speak to building your own AR, just seems to me like a lot of hassle instead of simply buying something off the shelf. As for the SKS, it 40+ inches long and I find it unwieldy. The built-in 10 round mag is a definite minus. Also, forget about replacing the mag with one of those 20 or 30 round clip-in mags -- they don't work. I've tried, they always fall off during rapid fire and they suck. The price of 7.62x39 ammo is still relatively reasonable and the ubiquitous Wolf stuff is readily available. The Ruger may cost a bit more new, but you may be luck and find a nice pre-owned one.
ThePitbullofLove		#8	[-]
Posts: 6722 (11/19/09 04:18 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Aubullet wrote: Then what would be the next best thing to get, to have a quick handling semi-auto with moderate mid-range power, at a bargain price for a tight budget in an unconstitutional state where the Bill of Rights is held hostage? SKS of some Eastern Block type, that isn't in an illegal configuration? Romanian WASR 10 (AKM AK-47)? Ruger Mini-14/30? M1 carbine? AR-15 Other? Assuming ammo costs are not a factor? Assuming that they are? It's more than likely nothing is going to come of this, but I'd appreciate any and all thoughts! Saigas are nice. AR's are wonderful. Mini14's are...well, Mini-14's Mini-30's unless they've changed the barrels do not perform well with surplus ammo. I guess the question is: "In what state and what constraints are you under?" Will your state allow a "fully featured" AR but not an AK clone? Does your state restrict you to "bullet buttons" and top loading fixed mags? What features are you allowed? Life is the crummiest book I ever read, there isn't a hook; Just a lot of cheap shots, pictures to shock, and characters an amateur would never dream up...
Aubullet		#9	[-]
Posts: 1442 (11/19/09 04:32 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ten round magazine is the one that really bites, otherwise just combos of cosmetics like flash hiders and bayo lugs etc. Certain "assault weapons" are on the "list" such as the AK.
Dalkowski110		#10	[-]
Posts: 1356 (11/21/09 12:34 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	"Ten round magazine is the one that really bites, otherwise just combos of cosmetics like flash hiders and bayo lugs etc. Certain "assault weapons" are on the "list" such as the AK." If the SKS isn't on the evil list, I'll vote for that. Seeing as you want a rifle in original configuration and I'm guessing your state doesn't like grenade launchers on Yugo 59/66's, I'd recommend a Yugo 59 (Soviet without the chromed bore), a Soviet (near the upper end in terms of price, but otherwise an excellent option), a Romanian (these are good bargains and identical to the Soviets in all but markings...they're actually tougher to find), or a Chinese military (basically Soviet, but much cheaper, with a spike bayonet vs. a blade, and a side-mounted sling swivel...be alert, though: the side-mounted sling swivel is on the left side of the stock, right under your cheek and may cause issues with your cheekweld). The Albanian SKS has issues with finishing (sometimes, NOT ALWAYS) and also might cause issues with the sling swivel...mounted in the same place as the Chinese rifle. I wouldn't call it a beginner's SKS. You'd be surprised how fast you can reload with the 10-round clips after some practice. To be perfectly honest, if I had no SKS and wanted to start out with one in a state where the 59/66 with grenade launcher wasn't an option, I'd get a Romanian SKS. Last Edited By: Dalkowski110 11/21/09 12:37 PM. Edited 1 times.
stantheman1986	WASR	#11	[-]
Posts: 5543 (11/21/09 02:09 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	When I lived in the People's Republik of New Jersey I was even able to get a "neutered" WASR 10, no flash hider or bayo lug, and it came with a 20-round mag with a plug installed. I still have it, even though in PA I can get an AK clone closer to military spec, but have no desire to. I am not in love with my WASR enough to want another AK clone. I did install some used surplus Romanian wood on it, and from the parts kit that I got, the military Romanian parts like the bolt, top cover, etc. seem to be more well made and heavier than the WASR parts that came in the rifle. Overall, I have more fun with and like my SKS's better than the WASR. I got the WASR just to "have an AK" for my collection, but I don't get excited about shooting it all that much, it just feels "cheap" even for an AK. At some point I may save up and get an Arsenal of Bulgaria in 5.45. Refurb Soviet SKS's are still around near the $350 mark, I got mine and it's great, refurb that was used by someone as a shooter, so no "guilt" in firing it a lot, I'm a big fan of chrome line bores so I never got a Yugo. I also have one of the cheap "China Sport" Norinco stamped SKS's and it's cheaply made but an adequate shooter. The real ChiCom milspec SKS's I have handled are much better made, I would like to get one of those although I have let several slip through my fingers for lack of cash and desire at the time.........I'm not really a big semi-auto guy anyway. As a battle rifle I hate the AR-15/M16 but as a range rifle and a fun gun I like it. I have built an M16 "slick side" and an M16A1 semi-auto clone from parts kits, and I love them both. It was a little cheaper than buying a complete rifle. The advantage is, you can order a bunch of kits from say, Model 1, have everything you need except the lower receiver, and then hunt down lowers at your leisure and build them up. I wanted to build 20" AR's in all the "major" calibers, 5.45, 7.62x39, etc..........just to have an AR that will shoot any ammo I can find. I am no fan of the carbines, I always go for the 20" rifle.
Aubullet		#12	[-]
Posts: 1444 (11/21/09 07:13 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thank you all for your carefully considered responses! Hopefully more will weigh in on this issue, but so far the replies have been very informative. I must tell you that my only experience with semi-auto rifles is from Rem Nylon 66, Ruger 10/22 and M1 Garand, so that the information I have received thus far is very important to me, and covers ground about which I know zip. THANKS!!!
Rustybore		#13	[-]
Posts: 910 (11/21/09 07:59 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I shot enough of the M16A1 to not like it or want to own one. Perhaps if someone gave me one free and the ammo to go with it, I would enjoy plinking with it. I had one AK47, a Bulgarian made one and sold it at a hefty profit. Never did shoot it. I'm just not a semi-auto guy. I have had several SKS's thru the years and have kept a Russian one and one that takes the AK magazine. I really like that one, very accurate, as I have found most SKS's. It is the rifle that I would use if SHTF. I have from 10-30 rnd magazines for it, just fun to shoot. So, I guess my vote would be for an SKS that takes the separate magazine, or just a plain SKS. Missed you last week in Reno. Kevin in Or.
yv4me		#14	[-]
Posts: 246 (11/21/09 11:00 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I live in the same state. All of these are legal here in the PRK. I enjoy shooting all of these and do so on a regular basis. Right now the 7.62x39 is cheaper than the 5.56. $220 shipped per 1000 for Brown Bear at AIM. The AK's are pretty good out to 300 yds, the AR's I can hit the gongs pretty easily out to 600. As for fun? It's a toss up. Two very different rifles.
m1 talker		#15	[-]
Posts: 7101 (11/22/09 12:36 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I will have to agree with Rustybore. I had more than my fill of the M-16 when I was in the Army. Never cared for it then, still don't, and never will. And as I have said here many times in the past, those who think the SKS rifles are inaccurate have not spent as much time with them as I have. I have twelve SKS rifles of different flavors and one particular Yugo 59/66 likes to take on the AR guys at the range against the 200 yard gong, where it consistantly rings the gong more than the guys with their black plastic rifles do. And they have optics on them too boot! Besides, I like cheap rifles, so I can afford more of them. And after a while you can get as speedy at reloading them with stripper clips as changing a magazine in an AK. Just need the good stripper clips that the ammo simply slides off of. Curt
Aubullet		#16	[-]
Posts: 1445 (11/22/09 01:34 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Sorry Kevin, I didn't make Reno this time. Just a last minute thing, but I had really wanted to go with the weather so nice on Friday. Had I been there, I'd most certainly have looked you up. Maybe April? Thanks for your input on this thread. I also am not a real semi-auto kind of guy, and generally prefer my bolt guns, single shots and muzzleloaders. But there is no denying the semi-auto's utility in certain kinds of situations, such as you have referenced!
Aubullet		#17	[-]
Posts: 1446 (11/22/09 01:40 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yv4me Can you tell me in reference to the two on the right end of your line-up, as to what I'm actually looking at? They look prettty much full on AK-47ish to me, with some of the verbotten features. Are yours currently legally transferable, or are they just grandfathered in. Are those long mags blocked at ten rounds, or is there something else going on there that I'm not aware of??? What am I missing here in my understanding of the current Kaliphonia laws?
yv4me		#18	[-]
Posts: 247 (11/24/09 11:43 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The one on the left I made myself out of a Romanian MD63 kit and receiver flat. It is legal to build your own guns in Ca. as long as you don't build it for sale. I bought the Yugo M70 underfolder at one of our local gun shows a couple months ago from Coldwarshooters. The rules are pretty much the same as owning an AR. You have to have a Bullet Button,10 round mags, and a certain number of 922R compliance parts. You can buy Ca. legal AK's, Suomis, C93's, etc. from a few different dealers. http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storecategory94.aspx You'll be surprised whats legal. Sure the mags are blocked at ten when I'm at the range. See the link to learn more. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php
Aubullet		#19	[-]
Posts: 1450 (11/25/09 12:42 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks yv4me. Great links, and good information. Seems I'm not quite as limited as it appeared. Looks like it's okay to have most of a AK-47 with just a few WASR type mods and a blocked mag. Will keep looking into the great links you referenced to see how much more can be learned, but am already amazed at what can be done that seemed sure couldn't be done. Guess I just didn't really understand the details and made assumptions on the generalities. Thanks for setting me a little bit straighter. If our Sen/Reps could only see my thoughts now!!!
eb in oregon		#20	[-]
Posts: 1067 (11/26/09 01:18 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Personally, given your geographical and political location, I'd opt for the SKS from any country. It's a good handling, accurate enough, moderate capacity, rifle of adequate caliber. It has numerous accessories, if you choose to "trick it out," though I'm not one to do that sort of thing. Too much old school left in me. I don't mind using stripper clips, and those who choose to do so can reload as well and as fast as a magazine fed rifle. While an AK type has three times the capacity, which of us are going to find themselves in an extended "fire fight" needing the capacity of a rifle designed originally for full-auto fire, thus needing the extra capacity? The SKS is a very reliable, rugged, and simple to maintain piece of equipment that has an attractive price. While the Mini Thirty may be a tad more accurate, it is more expensive. While the AK type has more capacity, in reality it is no better than an SKS. As for an AR type, a lot more expensive, for not a bit of gain, except for better accuracy pass 300 meters, but not as much "poop." My thoughts. eb "We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776