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RLMbassist |
November 22nd |
Lead | |
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While not exactly "military history" what happened on this day 46 years ago surely effected the US military for the following 10 years.
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7GREEN |
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It was the emotional equivalent of December 7, 1941 or September 11, 2001 for those of us who remember it.
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RLMbassist |
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I wasn't around yet, still inside my momma....
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m1 talker |
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I was in the ninth grade and in third period English class when the announcement came over the PA system. Yes, it was a very emotional day for the entire
country. At least I got to put my arms around and hug that beautiful girl in class who started crying her heart out.
Curt |
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eagle7 |
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I was in the 4th grade, and will never forget that day. The worst effect of JFK's death was that we got LBJ as president..... and the military escalation
in VN, plus the "Great Society's" federally institutionalized welfare system.
Did anyone see that week long series on the History Channel about the assassination and the following weeks?? I found it very interesting. At one time I was a conspiracy theory believer, but now I think LHO was a dedicated communist who was the lone triggerman, although he may have been indirectly influenced by Castro. |
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RLMbassist |
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I've seen all the HC shows to date. My favorite is the "3 shots" (or similar title) that shows the story as it appeared to viewers on TV,
since I wasn't around to see it.
Being in Dealey plaza so many times and standing at the "snipers window" my main beef is with when the shots were taken. When the motorcade
pulled onto Houston, it presented a straight on shot, with a target getting closer. Waiting for the car to turn onto Elm created a harder shot at a target
getting smaller and angling away. I think this (or something like it) was brought up in the movie JFK (which is mostly bunk) but I never realized it until I
stood there and saw what I would do. The straight on shot would have been much easier. Waiting for Elm St. would mean waiting for the second shooter to help.
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7GREEN |
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I have always been skeptical, if I were going to do the Big Job I would have the best equipment I could get, not a 25 year old milsurp from a military with a
shaky reputation with a scope just bolted on and with 20 year old ammunition. At the time Oswald was portrayed as this incredibly crack shot, subsequently it
was revealed he was OK, nothing more. The lone assassin who is somewhat crazed and doesn't think things out too well is the American pattern-cf. John
Wilkes Booth, Charles J. Guiteau and Leon Czolgosz-and I am not a big believer in conspiracy theories-as Ben Franklin said "Three may keep a secret if two
of them are dead."
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m1 talker |
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If he had used a Mosin-Nagant, then I would question the speed of working the bolt and firing. I understand he used an M-38 Carcano, however. I have never
fired an M-38 Carcano, but I do have an M-41 Carcano and I can easily get off three rounds in that amount of time. A buddy of mine also tried it and he also
had no problem with shooting it fast. I do not know the differences between the actions in the M-38 and the M-41, however.
Curt |
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RLMbassist |
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m1 talker wrote: Now that is making the best out of a bad situation!
If it happened the way they say, it was a miracle shot. Oswald was definatly unhinged & out there enough to try it, but I don't think he pulled it off by himself. There are so many people that have tried to duplicate the shooting and couldn't. Carlos Hathcock being one. |
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Aubullet |
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Ruby is why I doubt the one gunman theory. That was just too obvious an elimination, of the one person who could answer the key questions, as cover for a much
more professional plot. Oswald may have had bullets flying, but I seriously doubt it was his show! He was the sacrificial patsy, IMHO!!!
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eagle7 |
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The shot that killed JFK didn't require an extraordinary amount of skill. A few years ago a documentary was made of an Australian research team that
replicated the conditions of the assassination, and the shooter easily made the mortal shot. They used a Carcano M91/38 short rifle and 160 grain roundnose
6.5mm ammo just like LHO. The Aussies set up two mannikins (JFK and Gov Connelly) in a reproduction of the Lincoln Convertible interior, and the
"car" was set up to travel on a track at motorcade speed. The shooter was in a boom elevated at the same height as the book depository window. IIRC,
the maximum engagement range in the assassination was less than 80 yards.
According to the Zabruder tape, LHO had 8 or 9 seconds to make three shots. Keep in mind that the clock starts when the first shot (the base of the neck JFK wound) is fired. In other words, LHO had 8 or 9 seconds to fire round number two (the miss ), and the third shot (the mortal wound). That's 4 to 4.5 seconds for him to work the bolt and re-acquire his target. I have a number of Carcanos that I shoot, and you don't have to be a super-sniper to get three well aimed shots off in that time span. The 6.5x52mm is a very pleasant round to shoot....my 13 year old son shoots my Carcano TS carbines without flinching. In my experience the only reliability factor when shooting the Carcano is the sheet metal Mannlicher clip. If the clip in the gun is good, the gun is going to function as it was designed to do. Uninformed "experts" with an axe to grind against the Carcano family of rifles and carbines have really muddied the waters in the JFK conspiracy world. The ammo LHO used was not 20 year old Italian war surplus, it was recently made Winchester ammo from a CIA contract. In the mid-late 1950s the CIA was supporting Albanian anti-communists fighting the Hoxna regime, and the Albanians had Carcanos left by the Italians in 1943. When the insurgency failed, the CIA reneged on the contract and Winchester sold the ammo on the civilian market. I too have had reservations over the role played by Jack Ruby. The recent History Channel series has changed my point of view somewhat. They had interviews with people that knew Ruby well, and they all concurred that he was irrational, over-emotional, and not too smart. Some conspiracy proponents have tied him to organized crime (the Marcello and Trafficante crime families), but the reality is that Ruby was too much of a loudmouth goof to be seriously trusted by the Mob. In other words he was a low level pimp, not the kind of guy you'd trust to keep his mouth shut after killing the president's assassin. It seems that Ruby thought he was going to earn the acclaim of the American people for killing LHO. IMHO LHO was a communist loose cannon who operated as a lone wolf killer. If there was any conspiracy, it was with Castro. Castro was planning a sabotage attack on NYC around the same time that JFK was killed. For almost three years JFK and RFK were trying to whack Castro and militarily undermine his regime so I guess Castro had motives. As far as conspiracy theories go, I think many sincere people are influenced by the Oliver Stone movie JFK, which is good film making but very insidious in it's dishonest message. Jim Garrison....what a nutcase. edit. Curt, there is no difference in function between your M41 Carcano rifle and the M91/38 short rifle (fusile corto). The bolts, receivers, and magazine/trigger assemblies are totally interchangeable (even the 7.35mm M38 short rifles). The main difference is the shorter 21 inch barrel and the fixed rear sight of the short rifle. I have a M38 short rifle and favor it over my M41 because it is quicker handling and actually shoots to POA at 100 meters.
Last Edited By: eagle7
11/23/09 10:33 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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RLMbassist |
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The Carcano may be a okay shooter despite its reputation, wish I had one. I think I'll stick to my guns though.
I don't think the Zapruder film is "unaltered." IIRC it didn't get released until the 70's. There was another film from the opposite side of the street from Mr. Zapruder film, the Babushka film. Its fate seems confused, either never confiscated (which I find unlikey) or it is locked up by the Feds for what it contains. |
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