Two "movie gun" questions for you.

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ParallaxBill	Two "movie gun" questions for you.	Lead	[-]
Posts: 16506 (11/27/09 12:48 PM) Owner/operator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None I was sitting here watching "Joe Kid" and was trying to figure out what kind of rifle the character "Mingo" is carrying. In some views the receiver looks like an old 1891 Mosin Nagant which has an over sized bolt handle knob, a half-hex, half round barrel. But in one scene he appears to be cocking a hammer on it with his thumb. I think we discussed this before but I've forgotten if anyone clearly identified it before. Also, from one of my all time favorite movies "Hombre", what kind of Winchester is John Russell carrying. Is it an 1873 or 1876 and what caliber is it in. To me it looks like a 45-70 with a full round barrel and half magazine finished "in the white". Have there ever been any accurate replicas built of it? I posted this in the movie forum as well because I want answers if at all possible. Parallax *Lee Enfield Collector's Society member #3* *Mauser Shooter's Association member #17* Forum administrator for the Carolina C&R Shooting & Collecting Club, Last Edited By: ParallaxBill 11/27/09 12:50 PM. Edited 1 time.
Aubullet		#1	[-]
Posts: 1457 (11/27/09 02:01 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	One possible "answer" that you may want to consider, is that being a movie production means that they may not actually be the exact same rifle from one scene to the next, and also that it may not even be a "real" rifle of any particular type or original configuration. I've seen Hombre, oh so many years ago, and have never seen the other movie, so I can't comment on their specifics.
ParallaxBill		#2	[-]
Posts: 16507 (11/27/09 02:25 PM) Owner/operator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	You haven't seen "Joe Kidd"? That's a surprise. You should see it some time. The rifle Olin Mingo shoots in "Joe Kidd" is an extremely unique scoped sporter of some type. Also, Robert Duvall carries a nice high grade 1899 Savage, Don Stroud carries a broomhandle mauser. Lot's of interesting old guns in the movie. Parallax *Lee Enfield Collector's Society member #3* *Mauser Shooter's Association member #17* Forum administrator for the Carolina C&R Shooting & Collecting Club,
Aubullet		#3	[-]
Posts: 1459 (11/27/09 02:33 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'll add it to the list!
Dalkowski110		#4	[-]
Posts: 1367 (11/27/09 03:34 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Let's not forget Joe Kidd himself (played by Clint Eastwood) uses a Ross Model 1910 .280 Ross Factory Sporter, which I've yet to see in any other film. Mingo uses a Remington-Keene Deluxe Sporter that was unfortunately gotten to by a Hollywood "Bubba." Usually, the Remington-Keene, even the half-stocked sporter model, uses a full-length magazine tube. But alas, someone cut the mag tube in half. At the beginning of the film, the deputy actually uses an original Colt Bisley. The table full of rusty guns is REALLY amusing (when the bounty hunters catch Joe and offer to let him use one of the rusted guns): you get to see a Chassepot Mle. 1866 or Gras Mle. 1874 and a Remington Rolling Block that looks to be in .43 Spanish among other things. Before I credit myself with these observations, however... http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Joe_Kidd Enjoy. I could spend days looking at that website. It's a wiki, so you'll get disagreements. But it's VERY difficult to argue with multiple screenshots. In Hombre, they claim Paul Newman has a Winchester Model 1873 with a shortened mag tube, but since there's no screen shot, well... http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Hombre (Edit: I fixed your links. -Bean) Last Edited By: beanstrung 11/29/09 08:10 AM. Edited 2 times.
high speed cruise		#5	[-]
Posts: 3297 (11/28/09 10:05 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I got one question....how are you going to get back down that hill? CLASSIC! (My dad cracks up every time he hears that line). Whatever Newman had he sure could have used some effective hollow points! lol hsc
eb in oregon		#6	[-]
Posts: 1087 (12/01/09 11:33 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I sort of doubt that the armorer or the company that supplied the guns customized those guns for the movie. Even when that movie was made they were too valuable as originals to warrant the work. More than likely they were customized back in the "old days' when they were new and some guy (or guys as there were three) with a lot of money had them built to his tastes. Regardless, neat, neat old timers and something any of us would like to own. eb "We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776
Dalkowski110		#7	[-]
Posts: 1373 (12/01/09 12:45 PM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	"I sort of doubt that the armorer or the company that supplied the guns customized those guns for the movie. Even when that movie was made they were too valuable as originals to warrant the work." What about the rampant cutting down/modifying of Springfield Trapdoor Rifles that continued well into the 1970's as substitutes for percussion pistols? Winchester Model 1873's also had custom work done. If those two, then why not a Remington-Keene?
eb in oregon		#8	[-]
Posts: 1089 (12/02/09 01:24 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	First, because I'm a generally a trusting soul and will give them the benefit of the doubt. Second, because the numbers of "Trap Doors" far surpassed those of the mentioned rifles, thus having an overall less value. Also because there have been various reproductions available during those years that many of the movie armorers used instead of the vintage. For instance, one of the two cut down "Mare's Leg" that Steve McQueen carried in "Wanted Dead or Alive" was an El Tigre Carbine and not an original Winchester. I've also read in the past that movie armorers are conscious of the value of originals, and as these firarms are rented from independent company's, they are loath to ruin something that cannot be replaced, or that lowers the value of their "inventory." And anyway, this is all hind sight, which is 20/20, and values of firearms have changed over the last 30 years as have our thoughts on what is "valuable." I can remember when many of the firearms we cherish today were considered "old trash" and nobody cared what happened to them. Arisakas could be had almost brand new for $20.00, snipers for $60.00. Mausers were a dime a dozen, and many of them could be bought mail order for a few bucks. English doubles could be had for a few hundred bucks, and nobody wanted a muzzle loader if you gave it to them. "The times, they are a'changing." My opinion, may not be totally right, but there it is. eb "We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776 Last Edited By: eb in oregon 12/02/09 01:36 AM. Edited 1 times.
Dalkowski110		#9	[-]
Posts: 1374 (12/02/09 09:54 AM) Forum Co-host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	After doing further research on the Remington-Keene, it's actually a rather odd mix of factory plus one feature that someone just seemingly randomly stuck on there. I was wrong...the Deluxe Sporter was briefly offered with a half-length mag tube to accomodate a sling swivel mount that encircled the barrel. But that's just the thing: there are TWO front sling swivel mounts on the barrel, not one. Someone over the years fitted the rifle with an extra, rather inexplicably. Since it's such a bizarre modification, I would actually sincerely doubt the movie armorers had anything to do with it. "Also because there have been various reproductions available during those years that many of the movie armorers used instead of the vintage. For instance, one of the two cut down "Mare's Leg" that Steve McQueen carried in "Wanted Dead or Alive" was an El Tigre Carbine and not an original Winchester. I've also read in the past that movie armorers are conscious of the value of originals, and as these firarms are rented from independent company's, they are loath to ruin something that cannot be replaced, or that lowers the value of their "inventory."" Or, equally possibly, the gun had been altered a few decades before the movie came out by said movie gun rental company. I heard somewhere that the Winchester Model 1901 that we saw in Terminator II had actually been altered in the 1950's or 1960's with the intent to use it in a Western. If it stayed in a gun rental agency that long, I wouldn't be surprised if a Winchester Model 1873 modified in the 1930's stayed in until 1967.
Colin		#10	[-]
Posts: 2092 (12/02/09 11:46 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	A friend of mine bought a beautiful trapdoor for $5. Granted this was in 1953. He shot a seagull with it, about all that was left was the feet.