New to the Nagant world... just bought an M38

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justin22885	New to the Nagant world... just bought an M38	Lead	[-]
Posts: 6 (11/30/09 05:39 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None well.. i just bought an arsenal refurbished M38... i kept looking at this one auction on gunbroker, sort of became attached to this one M38 specifically, so i bought it.. itll be here this weekend.. anything i should look out for?... whats the best way of removing cosmoline? and any good sources for any sort of action jobs?.. one thing ill be doing is backwards engineering the nagant action into a 3D solid model CAD file to use for various purposes, milling new actions, bedding blocks, furniture.. though im keeping the gorgeous military stock on my 98.. ill upload my work for anyone to use (unless someone knows where i can get actual factory blueprints to work from) i decided on the M38 because i wanted something lighter, physically easier to carry, and the folding bayonet on the M44 added about 1.5lbs to the rifle, and since ill probably never use a bayonet, i went with the 38... now heres my big question.. i ordered the rifle, then found out the surplus scene for ammo is almost dried up, i cant seem to find good ammo anywhere.. let alone brass cased ammo to reload (i can reload berdan primed cartridges without much added difficulty)... ive heard about reloading steel cartridges, but they do require more force and more lube, but the steel used is rather malleable and soft when compared to the steel used to make the dies for example, but... im not so sure i want to do that.. so any good source for decent, brass cased ammo would be helpful, if not im probably going to have to go steel surplus.. oh.. if anyone has brass cased berdan primed brass, once fired theyre not willing to go through the added work of reloading.. ill buy them off you, i have the time to go through the extra steps and reload berdan primers.
zeebill		#1	[-]
Posts: 3848 (11/30/09 05:56 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Welcome to the C&R and Military Surplus Firearms forums. I think you will find the M38 a great little military carbine in it's original form. We tend to frown and avoid any mention of modifying and sporterizing our weapons here and I would recommend you read the forum rules closely before you think we might be a good source of what you are looking for and proposing doing. The M38's saw a lot of action and wear so most of them are counter bored and some bores are worn heavily but do not get put off by that as shooting them will often give you amazing results. Check some of the links listed on here to find sources of brass cased ammo which to my way of thinking will give you far lass feed problems and greater consistency too. Just try and keep in mind you are dealing with a battle rifle and can only expect results in proportion to what they were originally designed for and it is not a modern sniper rifle but in the right hands with care can often outshoot them. Again welcome and enjoy shooting your M38! Bill
justin22885		#2	[-]
Posts: 8 (11/30/09 07:39 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	mine has been counterbored.. but... i just see that as an increase in reliability... theres very little i can do to the muzzle that will actually ruin accuracy.. so therefor its more durable, and probably more reliable now... the receiver and metal parts on mine, though i dont have it yet, i can tell are in very good shape (many very high quality photos).. absolutely no pitting at all, and the stock is gorgeous... if i were to ever sporterize a nagant, id probably machine a new receiver (its actually perfectly legal to do so without a license for myself as long as im not selling it)... but this ones staying all military issue... im still probably going to buy a 91/30 sometimes.. maybe spend a little extra to get one in great condition.. or maybe one that needs some refinishing done on the metal and stock for a project, but thats later on... this one comes with an oil can, ammo pouch, and a sling, though im thinking i might buy some more stripper clips for it what it seems will be my best option for x54 ammo, is prvi partizan... i can get it for $10-$15 for a box of 20.. if anyone has a better source, that will be great.. theyre brass cased, boxer primed, easy to reload, and still cheaper to buy this ammunition than it would be to buy new american production x54 brass. im well aware i may come into a sticky bolt situation, but ive fully read up on that, and know what i need to do if thats the case as far as backwards engineering the action, parts, and stock, i like to have a library of blueprints for just about anything i can get my hands off, i used to study to be an engineer, and i enjoy going over designs or recreating them in 3D CAD programs.. and it wouldnt hurt to have the data i need to make a replacement part should anything happen to break.. for sporterizing.. i had my choice of getting a czech mauser for that.. and i passed it up because i seen the M38 nagant.. and really thought it was perfect as it is mainly though, my main reason for the M38 over the 91/30 was a lighter, easier to carry, more fun to shoot bolt action, something i could enjoy spending a day target shooting with.. or something well capable of going on a hunting trip with me... also, i really like the open stock sights on the old bolt actions, so ill most likely NEVER put a scope on it either
mosinaddict		#3	[-]
Posts: 66 (12/06/09 10:20 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Regarding the sticky bolt, some do have that problem, but not that many. I've gone through a lot of Mosin Nagants and have not had a stick bolt yet that was caused by something wrong with the rifle. Just clean it very well before shooting it the first time and you should be fine. On the surplus ammo front, it's still available, but it seems you have to buy it by the spam can and it's not the deal it used to be. I've had good luck with most all of the surplus except Bulgarian (certain date stamps only) which had a tendency to split (not a big deal) when shot and some lots of Czech silver tip which has bad coatings and can glue itself into the receiver. I believe the Czech silver tip is responsible for a lot of stuck bolts and broken extractors. Most Czech silver tip is okay, it just some date codes which I cannot remember anymore. If you do stumble upon some, you can always apply a light oil to the cases and then the shoot fine. That's how I got rid of my bad stuff.
justin22885		#4	[-]
Posts: 9 (12/08/09 03:52 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	i can only find brown bear ammo locally, for the hell of it, im going to deprime these steel, berdan primed cases, modify some to boxer primers, leave the rest as is and reload it all, and see what i get for performance... also, im going to order about 100 rounds of prvi partizan ammo, since theyre only about $15 for a box of 20, and its all boxer primed brass.. my nagant came with some accessories.. an ammo pouch, sling, and a bottle which im assuming is for oil, but its a two sided bottle with something that looks like W \| H... what do these symbols mean? and could i reuse one side for rem oil?
m1 talker		#5	[-]
Posts: 7127 (12/08/09 08:10 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	One side was for oil and the other side was for an alkaline solution, or more commonly referred to here as solvent. I had to boil those containers out in soapy water several times to get rid of the foul smell they had in them from decomposed oil and solvent. What side is what, I forget now. Curt
justin22885		#6	[-]
Posts: 10 (12/08/09 10:14 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	W for oil, H for solvent.. im going to try boiling it tomorrow, and order some hoppes solvent and hoppes brand lubricating oil to fill this thing with.. it seems like a really useful little flask to have around with the nagant... ill also be ordering a new cleaning kit (mind didnt come with one)... and the reloading press... btw, whats the capacity of each compartment of the oil can, anyone know?
justin22885		#7	[-]
Posts: 11 (12/09/09 12:43 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	well ive come across a problem with the nagant.. the mainspring i guess youd call it.. the spring responsible for firing pin tension is so intense, so heavy, that with all my strength i can barely compress it to attempt to get the bolt open... perhaps the sheer age of this rifle resulted in a very, very stiff spring, i dont know... but i do know it shouldnt take THAT much force.... so im thinking of getting a new replacement mainspring... would anyone suggest this? or is there another possible cause for how much tension i have to fight to compress it?
zeebill		#8	[-]
Posts: 3868 (12/09/09 09:49 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Have you taken the bolt completely apart and cleaned it? That could be the source of the stiffness as it could be filled with caked cosmoline and crud from storage. Most springs are not stiff by milsurp standards although if you are mesuring them by commercial rifle standards they could be considered stiff and hard to operate. If you are wanting slick and smooth then I would say you are barking up the wrong tree in a milsurp rifle at least a Mosin anyway. They are battle rifles and act just like they were originally designed to operate. Oh by the way it is the firing pin spring I am guessing you are referring too. The oiler is designed for use in the field and frankly is very easy to tip so if you decide to use it be careful or messes can result. Ask me how I know and my red face will tell you! They are also prone to leaking as they were made crudely many years ago and heaven knows what they have been through. Ask me again how I know and I plead red faced! I have told people many times that there are no stupid questions here as I have asked them many years ago. Good Luck with your endeavours and try to remember it has to not work and be broke before you try and fix it and I think you will do just fine! Best Wishes! Bill
daengmei		#9	[-]
Posts: 332 (12/09/09 02:14 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	but i do know it shouldnt take THAT much force Yea it does. Sometimes you'll find Mosin Nagant rifles that have little "dimples" pressed into the stock along the handhold impression area. This is where someone used the stock to put the tip of the firing pin against while pushing down on the bolt handle, so they could compress the spring and turn the cocking knob either to loosen or tighten. There is a bolt disassembly guide here. http://www.surplusrifle.com/finnishmosin/boltdisassembly/index.asp Last Edited By: daengmei 12/09/09 02:16 PM. Edited 1 times.
justin22885		#10	[-]
Posts: 12 (12/09/09 02:35 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	my oil can doesnt leak, i tested that part.. and i am quite careful, so it should be fine.... i know how to disassemble the boil, problem is its taken so much force for me to compress the firing pin to do so.. and crud would make it really hard to compress, but would also slow down the force it pushes back with, and that force it pushes back with is almost impossible to get the bolt apart
justin22885		#11	[-]
Posts: 13 (12/09/09 02:41 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	ok.. i finally got the bolt apart... what do you recommend for cleaning out all this crud?.. dish soap and hot water worked wonders on my oil can... im going to go do that.. scrub this crap off and put a small amount of new, clean oil on the surfaces that touch
justin22885		#12	[-]
Posts: 14 (12/09/09 09:41 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	aah.. all clean now.. cleaned the receiver out too, re-oiled it, and its working smoother now.. the bolt is easier to get apart, and doesnt stick so much anymore when cycling it... but i cannot shoot it yet, unfortunately, my M38 didnt come with the full cleaning kit.. therefor no firing pin protrusion check.. im ordering one of these kits now, with some stripper clips and probably about 100 rounds of partizan ammo
zeebill		#13	[-]
Posts: 3870 (12/09/09 10:31 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	OK Justin way to go! I use carb cleaner from Walmart to clean the metal parts outside away from the wood with plenty of ventilation and with the temp hitting the teens the next few days that will have to wait for me. I have a backlog of 5 rifles waiting right now. You seem to have remarkable patience which is something I lacked for many years a trait that did not help me at all, but age has helped a bit! Keep up the good work and let us know how you are doing. Good Luck Bill
justin22885		#14	[-]
Posts: 18 (12/10/09 10:58 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	i got my oil can absolutely spotless inside and out.. i did boil it in soap water and its a gorgeous piece of equipment now.. i have some hoppes #9 solvent and some eezox synthetic gun oil coming to fill it up on an unrelated note.. when these wolf rounds are fired.. im going to neck resize them, using the water pressure method ill deprime them, with a flat tip punch or a small diameter rod ill punch the dent out of the berdan primer.. scrape the contents of some of my percussion caps i had for a cap and ball revolver out, refill the berdan primers, and reload... ill post my results... on an M38 and reloads note... does anyone find that a slower, heavier bullet allows for gunpowder to burn more thoroughly in the shorter barrel, reducing the fireball and allowing the 7.62x54R load to perform better out of a shorter barrel?
justin22885		#15	[-]
Posts: 21 (12/12/09 04:46 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	well, as it turns out this nagant isnt going to get much for accuracy since im shooting ammo that may have higher velocities, or heavier bullets than the military loads it was origionally sighted in for, so what i think ill do is remove the front sight all together.. remove the front post, drill out and tap the hole for the front post.. then drive in a threaded rod ill probably make by cutting the head off a thin screw.. cut a horizontal groove in the top.. so i can adjust the front sight post for elevation with a jeweler screwdriver through the hole in the top of the sight hood.. has anyone done anything like this before to sight in their nagants for a load alternative to what was issues by the russians during the war?
hauptspritzer		#16	[-]
Posts: 591 (12/13/09 02:13 AM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I have a 91/30 that had an accuracy problem. It was shooting about 8" low at 50 yds. What I did to correct this was to take a stir straw and trim it to the length needed with an exacto knife. when the proper length was acquired, I filled the top of the straw with wood putty and painted eveything to match the original color. I can now hit the bullseye and no one knows that the front post has been modified. "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. "- Thomas Jefferson Charlie...