Help with 37mm Polish headstamp in The Polish Mauser Forum Forum

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Help with 37mm Polish headstamp

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Orita	Help with 37mm Polish headstamp	Lead	[-]
Posts: 45 Jul 28 06 10:56 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None - I have an interesting 37X257R inert fired brass shell case of Polish manufacture dated 1939 [no projectile]. Unfortunately I don't know the Polish language and I'm not too familiar with the Polish headstamps. The rimmed shell case is 257mm tall [a little over 10-inch] and the base [rim] diameter is 56mm [almost 2 1/4 inch]. This type of 37X257R round was used by the 37mm anti-tank [AT] Wz.36 cannon manufactured in Poland under licence from Sweden. It was a copy of the original Bofors 37mm AT gun from Sweden. The 37mm Wz.36 AT gun made in Poland in 1930s was used by the brave Polish soldiers agaist the Germans during the fall of 1939. --- My picture from top shows in the middle the 37X257R Polish rimmed shell case dated 1939. At left is a fired German 37X263B belted shell case dated 1938 and used by their 3.7cm FlaK. At right is a fired Soviet 37X252R rimmed shell case dated 1943 and used by their 37mm M1939 AA gun. --- The bottom picture shows the hedstamp markins for that 37X257R Polish shell case. Note the black ink markings from top "BRT2 190 Pn-4-38" which give data about projectile and propellant used and I need help with these markings. At bottom the black ink markings "F.A.-31-39" may have these meanings: maker's mark "FA" for "Fabryka Amunicji" PWU-FA located in Skarzysko-Kamienna [now ZM MESKO], lot number for assembled/loaded case "31" and two digit date for the year of round assembly 1939. Above the primer is stamped "37 wz.36" which shows the caliber in "mm"/37 and the type of gun / "Wz.36". The mark "wz" is the short for "wzor" which means model/type. Below the primer is stamped "FA 18-39D" which may have the meaning: maker's mark for shell case manufacturer "FA" [see above], lot number/18, two digit date for the year of shell case manfacture 1939 and the letter "D" which may stand for the brass supplier code for "Dornach" from Switzerland [the company which supplied the brass for case manufacture]. There is also a small oval mark having 2 numbers inside, perhaps a quality control stamp [?]. Note the big black ink "P" letter stamped around the fired percussion primer screw. I'm almost sure this "P" letter means "Armor-Piercing" / Przeciwpancerny. Any help will be appreciated. The picture should be posted soon below. Orita 07/28/06
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onyx66	Help with 37mm Polish headstamp	#1	[-]
Posts: 29 Jul 28 06 3:33 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hello, "BRT2 190 Pn-4-38": BRT2 - type of pulver 190 - probably weight of pulver (in grams) Pn - Pionki (city near Skarzysko, manufacturer of pulver, early know as Zagozdzon) 4-38 lot 4 1938 year. "FA 18-39D" which may have the meaning: maker's mark for shell case manufacturer "FA" [see above], lot number/18, two digit date for the year of shell case manfacture 1939 and the letter "D" which may stand for the brass supplier code for "Dornach" from Switzerland [the company which supplied the brass for case manufacture" - it's OK, but a letter D found on those cases is a code of polish brass supplier Dziedzice. Regards from Poland, Peter
Orita	Re: Help with 37mm Polish headstamp	#2	[-]
Posts: 45 Jul 28 06 4:03 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	- Hi Peter, Thanks for the great info!!!!!! Yes, it is true, at Pionki plant propellant and projectiles were made. If I'm not wrong "PWU" stands for "Panstwowe Wytwornie Uzbrojenia" [National Factory of Armaments]. I wasn't sure if the letter "D" from the impressed mark "FA 18-39D" stands for "Dornach" [Switzerland] or "Dziedzice" [Poland]. Some similar headstamps for 37X257R shell cases manufactured in Poland before 1939 also have a very small "Polish eagle"-stamp. --- It looks like the Polish made 37mm Wz.36 anti-tank guns were manufactured by "SMPzA" [Stowarzyszenie Mechanikaw Polski z Ameryki?] from Pruszkow [a town in central Poland]. Some of the Polish made 37mm Wz.36 anti-tank guns were captured in 1939 by the German troops and later used by Wehrmacht as 3.7cmPAK(p). Peter, please correct me if I wrote something wrong above. Thanks again, Orita 07/28/06
onyx66	Helpn with 37mm Polish headstamp	#3	[-]
Posts: 29 Jul 28 06 4:51 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hello Orita, you have a big knowlegde about polish ww2 ammo. Gratulations !!! A small polish eagle is a mark of Fabryka Amunicji in Skarzysko (as a producer of empty case) Regards, Peter P.S. 40 mm wz.36 from battlefield in Poland.
Orita	Re: Helpn with 37mm Polish headstamp	#4	[-]
Posts: 45 Jul 28 06 9:46 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	- Thanks for reply and your photo. Is that a 40mm Bofors [40X311R] rimmed shell case??? The model with large diameter percussion primer screw was manufactured by Bofors in Sweden and in early 1940s in USA. Unfortunatly I cannot see in that photo the impressed headstamp markings. Orita 07/28/06
nothernug	Re: Helpn with 37mm Polish headstamp	#5	[-]
Posts: 13331 Jul 28 06 11:32 PM Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hey orita, I'm here! he needed some help posting pics and I had him send it to me to post for him. Sorry I was delayed. Here's a pic of the casing he is inquiring about. (click on thumbnail for larger view...) Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
Orita	Re: Helpn with 37mm Polish headstamp	#6	[-]
Posts: 45 Jul 29 06 12:04 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	- Thanks for posting my both pictures. The Polish headstamp for the 37X257R shell case looks great and all the markings can be seen. --- NOTE: After Poland was occupied by the German troops in 1939, the ammo plant from Skarzysko-Kamienna was taken by the German "HASAG" company [Hugo Schneider Aktion Geseltschaft Verke] which produced various types of ammo. 9mm [9X19] Luger/Parabellum cartridges headstamped with the 3-letter code "kam" were also made during WW2 by "Hasag, Eisen-u. Metallwerke GmbH, Skarzysko-Kamienna" from Poland. Orita 07/29/06
onyx66	37mm polish	#7	[-]
Posts: 29 Jul 29 06 3:57 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi Orita, click for photo to enlarge headstamp. I know, I must clean it..... The paint codes from 40mm wz.36: BRT3 - 282 ST in ovall - 3 - 38 P - 5 - 37 The headstamp: 40 wz. 36 ST in ovall - 20 - 37N ST in ovall is a code of Factory in Starachowice (city near Skarzysko) P - Pionki 37N - year of production case, brass from Norblin (Warsaw) 40 mm wz.36 from Starachowice Regards, Peter P.S. sorry for my poor english....
onyx66	37mm polish	#8	[-]
Posts: 29 Jul 29 06 4:18 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Here are 37 and 40 mm polish made cartridges: Regards, Peter
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Orita	Re: 37mm polish	#9	[-]
Posts: 45 Jul 29 06 2:53 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	- Hi Peter, Thanks for the nice pictures [the hard wooden floor looks great too, better that a carpet floor]. I had no idea they used the 40mm Bofors AA gun [firing the rimmed 40X311R round] in Poland. I have a few WW2 fired 40X311R brass shell cases but all were made here in USA. That 37mm round from right must be the Polish made 37X257R shell case like I have. What are the headstamp markings for it??? Orita 07/29/06
onyx66	37mm polish	#10	[-]
Posts: 29 Jul 30 06 5:54 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi Orita, here is my 37 mm wz.36 headstamp Regards, Peter
Orita	Re: 37mm polish	#11	[-]
Posts: 45 Jul 30 06 9:20 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	- Hi Peter, Thanks for your nice photo. I can see the black ink markings "BRT2 192 Pn-5-36", "F.A.13-37." and the impressed markings "37 wz36" over "Polish eagle 7-37D". I don't see that small oval mark [that is visible in my photo], probably a quality control stamp. I've noticed that the big black ink letter "P" stamped around the percussion primer screw is segmented in the early years [1937] and continuous in the later years [1939 - see my photo]. --- Peter, was "Fraget" ["Fr"] another Polish brass supplier for the shell cases??? I know about "Dziedzice" ["D" or "DZ"] or "Norblin" ["N"]. These Polish headstamps for 37mm or 40mm rounds from late 1930s are very interesting. It's amazing that those black ink headstamp markings didn't fade away after so many years. --- Peter, I sent you a private message, I want to ask you some questions. Orita 07/30/06
onyx66	37mm polish	#12	[-]
Posts: 29 Jul 30 06 11:43 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi Orita, quality control mark (B2in ovall) on my case is between letters R and T in BRT. There are 3 polish brass suppliers on polish pre 1939 ammo: D or DZ - Dziedzice N - Norblin F or Fr - Fraget I've never seen Fraget code on 37 or 40 mm rounds. I find it only on 7,9mm mauser ammo from 1938. Orita, send me, please message on onyx66@op.pl Regards, Peter
Orita	Re: 37mm polish	#13	[-]
Posts: 45 Jul 30 06 2:20 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	- Thanks Peter! Now I can see the position of that little oval mark on your 37X257R headstamp. I only heard about the brass supplier "F"/"Fr" but I didn't see it either on the Polish 40mm or 37mm shell cases. --- Question: Did ammo plants from Poland manufacture before WW2 only brass shell cases for the 37X257R and 40X311R rounds or STEEL cases were manufactured too???? Thanks again, Orita 07/30/06
onyx66	37mm polish	#14	[-]
Posts: 29 Jul 30 06 3:46 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi Orita, you have a message on email. P.
snider volley	37mm case	#15	[-]
Posts: 1 Nov 12 12 6:46 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hey guys nice casings . Aim looking to buy a couple 37 mm bigots casings if any body wants to sell or knows where to locate casings I have a live gun and want get some brass . My gun is a german pak 35/36 rebored for bigots 37mm during war Thanks
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