12GA 3 & 3/4 (12ga FH) in Modern Shotguns Forum

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12GA 3 & 3/4 (12ga FH)

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HUBEL458		#161	[-]
Posts: 166 Jan 20 12 1:20 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Here are some more sabot/slug and loading concepts. First is Alcan 2.75" paper case with Dixie 600gr slug, with the side of the case crimped into the relief/lube groove of the Dixie slug.The groove in the Dixie isn't quite as deep as the groove in the Fosbury slug shown in earlier post, but still seems to crimp fairly tight. Next are various slugs in 12ga REM sabots that take 57 cal slugs and bullets.Those sabots are from the REM Accutip loadings. In picture you can see one of the REM 385gr jkt bullets they use. Also is sabot with 20ga cast Lyman. On right sabot with hardcast 585 cal 640gr lead bullet, the ones I use in my 585HE wildcat case. I sized it down a little, perfect fit. Also the .575 cal Dixie Gunworks lead slugs will do. Also shown is a long pointed 55 Boys bullet in one, fairly tight fit.We cut back .3" of bullet off so it fit for length in sabot and is 750gr. Third are 3.5" brass and plastic with the REM sabot and the 750gr pointed slugs in them.In all the sabot work we and others have done, trying to get accuracy and high speeds together, maybe there is such a thing as too much plastic. IE, sabots too thick on the sides if doing 50cal or smaller in 12ga sabots, for heavier slugs at high speeds. Thinner sides may discard more evenly at the greater pressures and violence of high speeds. Thin sides may have less give so that sabot grips slug better to impart spin in rifled use. Example in smoothbore use is the USS slugs, where the brass slug is .629" with thin discarding petals that have proven to be very accurate. And with both reasonable priced sabot offerings the last few years being undersize, accuracy problems, etc, maybe time to try something else. Got to find whole bunch of these sabots. Are these pictured 12ga REMs the only 58cal ones around? I can't find others, and maybe we can find where these are made. As I have huge numbers of the 585 slugs, which by the way I think is best hunting combination, without extremely heavy slugs which suffer for the speeds needed for longer range use. It is hard lead, good for big game.And my guy can make many, many more if needed whether for 585HE rifles or in sabots if we can find some.ED
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HUBEL458		#162	[-]
Posts: 166 Jan 25 12 7:10 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Some more sabot and slug ideas, discarding types and locked on base types. First picture of 20ga Buckhamer pulled apart. The bunch I have were pulled apart, the slug won't lock back in tight, into the base. Second is various 20ga sabot/slug ideas some using buckhammer sabot bases that a bunch of 458 cal lead slugs and jackted slugs I have, lock into real tight. The 458 lead ones are 400gr, jkt are 350gr. And I got some empty SPW 20 gauge sabots, and 20ga Buckhammer slugs lock into them real tight.I have many of these slugs. These slugs are 440gr. Also is 3" 20ga FED factory sabot shell and one of discarding sabots out of the case. Also a 3.5" 20ga Hastings 3.5" load with black locked on base sabot, and sabots out of the case and couple 20 brass 3.5" RMC cases. Next is variety of 12ga sabots with 50cal slugs in them.2 white and the pink sabot are FED, The black is Hornady, With a 50cal long bullet . The grey, is a BPI with .504" cast 440gr slug. I wish the BPI was full size like the others and fit rifled barrels tight for accuracy......... Last 12ga SPWs from Slug-R-US(30 cents ea) with various 50 cal slugs locked in tight, and shown with one out of a factory load, the dark colored one. 50cal 385gr Great Plains ML slugs lock in perfect for a lighter loading. Other ML slugs will do and a few of the Dixie Gunworks 50cal slugs lock in also...Ed
HUBEL458		#163	[-]
Posts: 166 Feb 3 12 11:33 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Some more slug setups and ideas. First is USS brand sabot that European cartridge has, without locked base, a discarding 12ga sabot, with .629" brass slug. It is as accurate in rifled barrel as its locked on base counterpart, in smooth barrels. Up to 750 gr brass slug I tested. 3 shots in an inch, 30yds. Shown with BPI powder cup seals. 2nd is the USS slugs with locked on base for comparison. With corresponding length cases they were designed for. 3rd are heavy solid tungsten slugs, the smaller .580" cal and 1200gr, the bigger ones .660" cal and 2200 gr. A guy in Southern MI made a few for me to check out. Now these too hard to fire fullbore, damage rifling, must be in plastic. These are just what the super heavy slug guys might like. 4th is a 1000gr 58cal tungsten slug in a 12ga REM style 58cal sabot. Notice how short it is for being super heavy.
HUBEL458		#164	[-]
Posts: 166 Feb 13 12 3:15 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Here is some more older cartridges and ideas. First is a fellows collection of older brass cases. They look like Berdan primed. Run from 36ga to 12ga, big one on right is flare cartridge. Second is a paper case clad with thin brass nearly to the top. Third is picture of paper case crimped into the side of a slug with shallow grooves.I did one pictured above with a Dixie slug. Some experimenting with 12ga discarding style sabot idea that takes 58cal slugs/bullets.I pictured them above. A fullbore,bore fitting sabot that takes 575-580 cal slugs or bullets, cast or jacketed. For reloaders to use, and not undersize ones that have been available, for reloading guys. That the guys haven't been able to get speed and accuracy at the same time. These sabots are super accurate in most tests, in factory Remington sabot loads. Much more so than the undersize sabots reloaders have had to work with. I tested with the 440 gr .575cal hollowbase Dixie Gunworks # BA-1103 lead slug and 3 shots from heavy long barrel NEF nearly into same hole, at 30yds. Gun locked down. Going about 2200. Our slow powder loads in 3.5" plastic. Can be loaded faster. No tests at long range, bad eyes/no scope, colder than witches ---, and no time. I am trying to find who makes these.There are about 2000 injection mold companies in US
HUBEL458		#165	[-]
Posts: 166 Feb 22 12 5:41 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Another 12ga sabot idea, first picture is a 570 gr USS slug, with Powder Cup seal from BPI, locked to USS discarding sabot section. This shortens column so that we can get more of the slower powders in we use, in shorter 2.75" cases. With slower powders, they get to peak pressure a little easier so that the cushion usually between seal and sabot/slugs isn't needed. This locked on seal will aid in smoothbore accuracy and it will work of course in rifled barrels. This sabot has a peg on the back that locks it in original setup to the green USS cushion base/seal, and we just pried it apart and drilled tight hole to match in the Powder Cup seal, and forced it on for a locked fit.. Slug is .629" diameter. Next picture is 3 sizes of first USS sabot slugs, with the locked on bases which work good with them. Giving nearly rifle accurracy in smooth bores. Here is old time picture of couple of Rodda 4 bores. Man what nice old guns. Next picture is a 1.5" Minie ball slug, might work for close to a one gauge. It is next to older 37mm case which might fire it also. Maybe a way to make a one gauge of sorts, if.......I get enough ambition...Ed
HUBEL458		#166	[-]
Posts: 166 Feb 24 12 10:40 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Some more 12ga sabot work. The sabots in first picture are like ones we want to get made for reloading. They have 440gr Dixie Gunworks muzzleloading minie slug. I related earlier that 3 shots with these in heavy rifled barrel NEF got them all in nearly the same hole, at 30 yds. Also 4 shots same distance, a 3 inch best group, smooth barrel. The slight hollow base helps with smooth barrel. The hollow base isn't as deep say as a 12ga foster slug.Another one they have, a little heavier, with little deeper hollow base should make tighter group. Loads in 3.5" plastic going about 2200. Second picture shows something new I found out.It shows two different wad setups. When I took the REM Accutip loads apart I notice they used a thick seal, old style white felt cushion. All the tests I read about that factory load, says it is always near the top in accuracy. I had used the BPGS and flexseal cushion mostly, as it seals real good. But in the smoothbore test above the thick seal and felt wad gave the 3" group and the other wad setup 5". The smoothbore, which isn't a perfect system, for slugs not designed for smooth, worked out to show and magnify difference between the two wad setups.. What first clued me in on this, to make a check, was recent weeks research on net,on all sabot patents, where I read that sometimes plastic cushions cock a little affecting accuracy. That is the plastic cushions with a lot of space in them. Where the felt/fiber cushions stay much more stable for a bigger percentage of shots.The very accurate Hornady SST sabot has no cushion at all between seal and sabot, but a thin rubber cushion disc inside their sabot, and the above may be one reason. The Federal Fusion sabots and the Federal Expander sabot both are accurate--they don't have a wide open plastic cushion. Third picture is of a Greener Martini slug gun a guy rigged up with a heavy rifled bull barrel in 12ga. Great looking gun. Finally thoughts about all of our posts on many forums(110) around the net. We are very happy with the response and help we get doing this. We feel this thread a positive boon and help to shooters interested in big bores, and by venturing into the big bore areas will promote more guys getting into shooting, reloading, smithing, etc. And a measure of interest are the views. All sites including a big picture site, have about 9 million views. And also we congratulate the 24hr Campfire Big Bore as being being the first with our regular 12ga FH thread to go over 200,000 views.Next is the Highroad with nearly 150,000, third is the Firingline with nearly 125,000, 4th Accurate Reloading 112,000, and 5th WeaponsForum 106,000.ED
A square 10		#167	[-]
Posts: 1920 Mar 1 12 8:27 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	im liking that one In these times 'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my gun and my money. Anyone that supports this insanity can keep "THE CHANGE".
HUBEL458		#168	[-]
Posts: 166 Mar 9 12 8:51 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Some possibilities with the 12ga sabots we have been looking at. We may have possible leads on companies that can make sabots, that have most of equipment to do so. If they work out ok, the startup cost isn't as high as others who have to set up complete machines. We are working to line up a dealer who will get good ones made, at one of these sabot making companies.WE hope to have similiar design as the ones pictured below but with slightly thicker base. I've sent these sabots with Dixie cast slugs to different companies to show what is needed, and what the full size specs should be. With Dixie cast slug in, they are like Federal Fusion Sabot. We will keep you informed on what happens. At least 5 58cal slugs that Dixie has, looks maybe to work in these, as best I can tell.I think it is possible to reload with a simple inexpensive sabot like these, for buck a round. 40-60 cent slug, 15-20 cent sabot, powder/primer 30 cents. Those sabots I pictured above we been testing, had 385gr Remington plastic nose bullets. I used some in my 585HE and I get them to 3900 fps. Just to see how fast was possible in the 585. If I shot them in my biggest 585, the 585 HSM, they'd go about 4500 or so. They are real light compared to 750gr 585 cal bullets. Like a varmint round. Do up a coyote fine.All skinned. Some neat guns-First is a 20ga smooth bore Beretta style break action 20ga. This is one of the greatest style break actions there is. Beretta made their trap guns on actions like this and great value for no more than they cost. This one only 100 bucks. We lengthened chamber to 3.5" so it can use various 20ga smoothbore slug loads that we are working on and testing..The SPW, Hastings, Lightfield type 20ga slugs have decent 50yd accuracy in heavier smooth barrels. Next is couple of older guns I found pictures of, a 4bore Hughes and a 600NE Wilke. I like them. 2nd is special 20ga double that poster Nitro 450 Express on the NitroExpress forum had built. Great job on nice looking slug gun.Ed
HUBEL458		#169	[-]
Posts: 166 Mar 25 12 12:55 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The sabots we are working with, take at least 15 different 58cal cast slugs for good fit, with the OD measurement of sabot at .733" with all of them in. There are 5 Dixie Gunworks MZ slugs, 6 slugs from Lyman moulds I know of. Five slugs from Lee moulds.These are mainly muzzleloading slugs and can be cast varying hardnesses. Examples-58cal (.575"- .578") Lee molds for 500gr, 460 gr, 350gr, etc, slugs Dixie Gunworks slugs of 440gr, 375gr, 490gr, etc, weights. Lyman 530gr, 510 gr, 460gr, 400gr, 315gr, etc. And they are all good slugs at a saving especially when folks cast their own. I'm getting out info on these to see if any reloading suppliers will try to get some made, so we will have a quality, proper OD size sabot, to reload with. From the research on sabot patents and testing by various of our readers, the sabots can't be undersize, or accuracy at high speeds isn't possible. I get questions about how to reload them for accurate fast loads in plastic cases for regular hunting and target use. Have to tell them we need to have proper OD size sabot.. Most want sabot loads and not fullbore cast....Why; they want lighter for less recoil in regular weight guns, they figure smaller slugs cheaper, they won't have leading with sabots if using cast, don't have to lube and don't need gas checks if cast, cast slugs for sabot use cheaper than jacketed. These parameters cover a lot of shotgun only deer hunters trying to afford doing their own loads, trying to be as accurate as expensive factory sabot stuff and hoping the savings will allow much more shooting.In the 1st is 440gr 58cal Dixie, and second, one I like better a 510gr from Lyman mould. Third slug from a Lee 460gr 58cal mould. 4th is various 58cal slug ideas. Behind are Lyman and Lee 58cal molds. Got more coming of different 58cal weights, clear down to 315gr. My casting friend will get them and as soon a we get somebody making the sabot, he can aid the cause by making slugs. Some of the Lyman and Lee slugs are more streamlined than modst big bore rifle bullets as you can see in picture. Here is picture of a nice Armi San Marco 20ga break action we found, that we're testing loads in. I really like the style of this gun. I'm going to have extra barrel setup, an extra heavy 585cal barrel and put my long 585HE in it, to go along the other 585HE single shots 585HEs we have setup on NEFs, and CBCs. Here is a picture of nice Greener Martini 12ga, with new stock, and a heavy rifled bull barrel, a fellow redid. Such great work. And very accurate. All these guns need like all singleshots, including break actions, are heavy barrels and they shoot great and are easy to shoot with the extra weight.
HUBEL458		#170	[-]
Posts: 166 Apr 6 12 12:57 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Here are a couple high speed, stop frame photos, showing how well and even these sabots we want to get made, open up. The petals being thinner with 58 cal bullets or slugs, opens easy. The slots between petals, going into the base aids even opening. We know a couple retailers that are interested in selling these style of sabots, if they round up the money to get the aquipment setup. Shooting supply companies are down some due the economy. Third is the 585 HE project, using a Savage 110-112 bolt action. Shown with barrel threaded and screwing action on. And the action is long enough to make a single stack mag, if we want, that would feed, with a little work, our 585 HE long case. 4th & 5th; pictures are of a old time 20 gauge, double slug and shot gun that was priced little less than the big name English ones. It is a Husqvarna double. Nice gun, we'd really have fun with modern 20ga slug shooting using this ..Ed
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HUBEL458		#171	[-]
Posts: 166 Apr 18 12 5:10 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Some info we have found out about the operation of discarding sabots. In first picture you see thin white line between the strong powder and the sabot. It is the white fiber cushion wad pressed flat. It is shown on the left in second picture. In the picture of it compressed you see it is pushing squarely on the sabot. This is most important wheh the sabot and slug exit barrel to get the slug started as straight as possible for accuracy. Other types of plastic cushions aid in sealing and help get best velocities but the rolls and legs in them can allow them to side shift which can affect how straight the sabot is on exit, thus causing the slug to deviate. The gray sabots we tried had cushion on the bottom of them and inspecting them after firing you could see they were pushed sideway some of the time. That is why we are trying to get tight fitting simple sabots built and recommend using heavy plastic seals with fiber wads to have least deviation and best accuracy. Third picture is our steel block we are using for 2bore with breach hole we got EDM'd into it. Fourth picture is an old time Kynoch round called the "Lethal" and the "destructor". Fifth picture is a H&H underlever double 8bore. Nice beautifal old gun.Ed
HUBEL458		#172	[-]
Posts: 166 May 5 12 9:03 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I think we found good overall sabot design that will be the easiest to get made, easiest to get seals and whatever wads needed... Keeping design simple. It is same simple design as the ones pictured above but with slightly thicker base.It is fairly compact for more room for our slow powder loads, and when using slower powders, we don't need as much cushioning which makes the room for the powder. Larger charges of slower powder, better velocity with less case expansion, and more reloads possible. We hadn't tested soft lead 58cal slugs in 12ga sabots for penetration until now.. They did very well, two different 440 gr ones, going though 4 inch dried timber, pushing out some wood on the back. Shows they are just starting to expand.Should do great for deer and hogs. Going 2200 in long barrel NEF. Have pictures later. A 58cal slug at good speed is nothing to look down on. Many African hunters liked that caliber in their 577 doubles for big game. Slugs can be loaded faster, cast heavier, and cast harder for any need.And compared to other way of getting slugs out of a shotgun, once we have good fullbore sabots, we save on needing bullet lube, gas checks, cheaper to get, no barrel leading, much better BC in the same weight of slugs compared to short fullbore ones.... Here are pictures of molds that can make cast 58cal slugs for the 12ga sabot we are working on.There are many makers and brands and styles of molds and weights available. Here is picture of a 10ga wadcup with a 730gr hollowbase lead slug in on the left .In my heavy barrel 10ga smoothbore I got 6" group at 50 yds. If we made hollow in the base bigger it would be more accurate in smooth barrel. The slug is .69cal one,measures .686"(from Lymam mold like in picture), that Dixie Gunworks has. I bumped up the diameter about .015" --wadcup is BPI VP100. Here is picture of a nice 8ga double a fellow has. Great looking gun..Ed
HUBEL458		#173	[-]
Posts: 166 May 21 12 3:05 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Working more with 58cal lead slugs in 12ga sabot we want to get built. We shot a few for checking penetration, with 440gr slugs at 2200 plus fps. Shooting into popple. In picture the 6x6 on the left penetrated by harder lead alloy slug, with slug showing very little expansion on exit from the 6x6, On the right, soft pure lead slug through a 4x6 starting to show expansion on exit. These slugs can be gotten or cast your own to about any hardess needed. They can even be heat treated to be as hard as jacketed. I have rounded up 9 different ones very easy, shown in 2nd picture and there are more. Ones in picture range from 400gr to 530 gr. There are molds to make them down to 350 gr and less. Here is picture, on left of Accutip sabot we been taking out of loaded rounds and testing 58cal lead slugs with, and right a hard plastic sabot model, we are working on to see how slugs fit and how it looks, and how it compares to the Accutip and other sabots we have here from WIN, REM, FED, Hornady. In picture is a really neat, very strong, 10ga Beretta style gun we got. Its barrel is heavier at the muzzle than most all 10 gauges we've seen except the NEF with bull barrel. Made by Pedretti, has top lever to open, instead bottom lever like Beretta or the Investarm 20ga we showed above. Going to make into switch barrel for 10ga and monoblock one in 585HE later. Have 2 barrels for it. Has nice big pad we put on it and it is weighted to 12 lbs in 10ga.. Now for some internal ballistics comparisons.There is formula for figuring appoximate Average Barrel Pressure, You take Muzzle Energy times 12......and divide it by the BORE Area in sq in, times the length of the barrel in inches. Examples- you have a 458 WIN, my 585HE and 12ga 3.5"-- all at 5000 Ft Lbs of energy which for 458 be standard load. The 585HE in this mode would be burning close to charcoal. The 12ga 3.5 would be 440gr slug in sabot at 2200 plus. The 458 Ave Barrel Pressure is about 16,000 psi. The 585HE Ave Barrel Pressure is about 8,000 psi. The 3.5 12ga Ave Barrel Pressure about 5,200 psi. The purpose of this-- To show the possibilites of big bores. Ok you can't go much higher with 458WIN, about 80gr of powder But 585HE you can get way over 10,000 ft lbs,with 180gr powder it holds running at 458WIN Ave Barrel pressure. AND 12ga and 3.5" brass case in Savage 210, slow powder loads, heavy barrel, you can get over 10,000 ft lb. with 180gr powder at much less than 458Win Ave Barrel Pressure. Possibilities are really great fun. Ed
HUBEL458		#174	[-]
Posts: 166 Jun 7 12 4:32 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Some 12ga sabot progress. Here is pic of our sabot model, two in front, shown with Accutip sabot behind. They are all holding 58cal slugs, showing how tight they fit and conform to the inside of the sabot petals. A decent fit is a help for better accuracy. Hope they get built for us this summer. We are working on it. Second picture is from a fellow who put 58cal cast slugs in a thinwall 20ga shotcup and shot this at 50 yds. This with first load he tried. Great accuracy for so many shots. This shows great possibilities with 58cal slugs, and should even do better in the 12ga sabot like the above we like. I've heard about BP guys who got into 58cal that they get good accuracy. Here is picture of some the grey bls sabots showing the way they have got bent and beat up, and shows what I and many others have found; that plastic cushions can bend and twist and shift, affecting the slug on leaving the barrel, affecting the accuracy. On a future work, I'm doing a Greener Martini in my 585HE long case, Here is picture of a parts action with a stock idea I'm experimenting with. Might use this or regular pistol grip.
HUBEL458		#175	[-]
Posts: 166 Jun 24 12 1:13 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Back after losing time to a lightning fried computer. Test in 3.5" plastic using a few accutip 12ga sabots out of factory loads. The 12ga accutip sabot, hard cast 440gr 58cal minie slug in 36" rifled NEF at 2200, and it went through 12 inches of wood like butter. The hole out showed it was starting to expand a little. Test of softer lead 500gr 58cal Minie with deeper hollowbase in accutip in smooth cylinder bore barrel at 2000, and 3 shots in 3" at 30 yds. This was a Lyman 575213 new style minie slug More experimenting can make these work fair in smooth barrels. For best accuracy use a blunt nose heavier 58cal 600gr slug with deepest hollow in the base. The blunt nose would be more front end heavy and a little more accurate from smooth bore.. Lee and Lyman have molds like that.Others selling slugs also. I mentioned before about seals/wads must be stable and not crush down off center, or it might affect accuracy. Here is picture of the one piece seal and wad Federal uses in their sabot loads. Notice it doesn't have a lot of space in the cushion part that would allow it to tip or go off center. Here is picture of some 10ga work using expanded 69cal minie and 700cal bullets in 10ga wadcup. 69cal hollowbase fairly accurate to 50yds in heavy barrel smoothbore. Here is picture of the Savage 110 done in my 585HE. Hollow butt of the stock is weighted, gun handles nice.Ed
HUBEL458		#176	[-]
Posts: 166 Jul 11 12 4:46 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	With other scoped NEF Ultra 12ga, 24 inch barrel, shot hard cast, 400 gr 58cal Lyman Minie in Accutip sabot at 75 yds. Hit small paper plate 5 for 5. Going 2000fps. Speaking of 585HE above. We have two in falling blocks, 10 bolt guns,5 break actions, and other types. A fun cartridge, and now that we are working with 58cal slugs in 12ga sabots, 58 cal is where it is at.. And now we are getting a run of 585HE cases made. Bertram getting ready to make the last die; done later this month and will be doing cases then. Cases are 3 bucks each, bulk shipping included. He usually charges 5 or more for wildcats, but as I'm furnishing final sizing die, and he will ship by bulk freight saving him handling, and he had a couple tools already to use, he said $3 each, a real good deal.. He will ship whole bulk order to me. I will pass them on to everyone buying in first run. I'll will get a bunch also, to load for others, to fill orders, and collectors. Get 50 for 150 bucks,get 100 for 300 bucks, 167 cases for 500 bucks. I'm having guys just make out MO to Bertram Bullets and get it to me and I send them on to him. I'll keep track of who gets what and ship cases to the guys helping with first run, no shipping charge. Want to make the run as big as possible. Got money ready to go for over 700. Like to get 3-4 times as many made if possible.
HUBEL458		#177	[-]
Posts: 166 Aug 8 12 4:52 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Sorry, late in posting, bad weather, computer lines zapped again. Some more experimenting with the Accutip sabots, Designed a two ball load using .577" cast lead balls. Bottom ball flattened a little in vise with the flats up and down in sabot. Used a fold crimp, 3.5" once fired REM case in NEF, long rifled barrel.....Fold crimp goes down on the top ball...Round balls 285gr each, going about 1900 hit within 2 inches at 30 yds. Those 58 cal inside Accutip sabots are really versatile. Tested 3 shots with 58cal Buffalo hollowpoint, hollowbase, lead, muzzleloading slugs, 2" at 30yds. All loads with plastic x12x seal and white felt cushion under sabot. Experimenting with an Enfield, had one set up with my 700HE 3.25, and just did one in my longer 700HE. Did little longer port and added little more weight.First picture. 2nd picture is a neat 3 barrel 16ga, which if I had it,deepen chamber, I'd have a neat 16ga FH....Ed PS---We are gaining on getting the big run of brass made for our 585HE. He is finishing the tooling and soon be producing. We want make the run as big as possible so everyone is welcome to help. You in US get in on first order, cases are $3 each.Those in the US he'll send whole order to me bulk freight, a big savings, and I'll get them to the parties involved, no charge for helping out on first run.The $3 cost is a great bargain compared to other big bore cases and if you buy 150 or so you've saved enough, over the cost of others to buy a barrel to make 585HE gun with. My contact--- gunowner at journey.com For those in Australia,Canada,South Africa,UK, and other countries send pmt to Bertram and he'll send cases to you individually when done. Right now can't afford export costs to send cases back out of US... 　 .
HUBEL458		#178	[-]
Posts: 166 Aug 26 12 2:42 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Here is picture of the two ball sabot load, using two 58cal balls in a 12ga Accutip style sabot. Hoping we will have sabot like above for reloading soon, in volumn so we can load and test a bunch of these 58cal bullets and slugs. There are soft cast, hard cast, and the heavier jacketed. These all work in my 585HE also. The 440gr hollowbase ones loose in the big box on left measure in at .585" and work great in my 585HE cases. Part of my 585HEs are smooth barrels guns just for testing the different style guns, and different loads. In the one smooth barreled one I have on BBK action, shooting my 585HE with 440 gr hollowbased Minie slug, we were hitting 8 inch paper plate with them going about 2700 at 30yds. Hollowbased they act like shotgun slug at short ranges. Will be neat deal to shoot them in 12ga accutip style sabots in rifled 12 gauges and the smoothbore 585HEs with $30 barrels. Here is picture of Pedretti(Beretta style) that came as 10ga. I have monoblocked in 585 barrel. In picture there is 585HE case partly out of chamber. I have extra fairly heavy 10ga barrel also and changes in 2 minutes. And that monoblock break action locks up like a bank vault.Real strong. 　　 And an ultimate big bore from history.ED
HUBEL458		#179	[-]
Posts: 166 Sep 29 12 3:55 PM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	We hope a company will be making our modeled 12ga sabots soon, this fall, to deliver to reloaders and suppliers.. We also got first part of funds collected for the initial big run for our 585HE long cases being made. Sending in bunch this week, and need more to make run bigger For more info if your interested contact me. We, others, and 'VdoMemorie' on the Cast Bullet forums and Shotgun World are experimenting with 58cal Minie slugs and 58cal round balls in 20ga wadcups, and find it is away to slug load your 20ga economically. You can use 20ga Commander wad and also shorter "sporting 20 short" wad from BPI. I cut bottom off of commander and use felt wads and 20ga obturator seal with .575" 470gr minie slug and got 4" group at 30 yds, with smooth barrel. That is with heavy thick,smooth barrel I put in CBC below. Here is picture of the CBC break action that I mono-blocked in smooth super heavy, thick 20ga barrel..30" long, chambered for 3.5" cases. Works great with 3.5" plastic or brass cases. Here is picture of the 1887 WIn with my 585HE in it. I put in a heavy barrel and different kind of extractor Barrel is 28".. I like putting my 585HE in all the old style of guns, just to show all the uses the case has. I found supply of super long bmg cases to make my 700HE Long cases. It is 4.27" long and holds over 370 gr ball powder, 1000gr at 3400 plus. I have it in my Vulcan BMG bolt action and I just got one done in a MRC PH bolt gun, in picture below...Ed
HUBEL458		#180	[-]
Posts: 166 Oct 29 12 12:07 AM active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I found pics of a factory 12ga over under that has bottom barrel rifled, top one smooth with chokes. Will have pics few days. Also pics of 585HE case samples from the first run of my 585HE cases, Bertram is doing.ED
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