Patern '14 .303 General questions and price survey

0 Kudos

Forum Jump

Author	Comment
bambam91	Patern '14 .303 General questions and price survey	Lead	[-]
Posts: 161 (09/20/09 01:07 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None I am looking to buy a P14 .303 Enfield. I usually survey Gunsamerica and GunBroker to see what guns actually sell for. That gives me a good idea of the values of guns. Asking prices vary widely but purchase prices are pretty close for comparable types. the problem is that very few P14 .303's are for sale. Currently I see three of them on GunBroker they range from $400 to $2500. And they are not comparable. So I was wondering if the others in this forum who have P14's could let me know what they paid and/or what people are seeing for actual selling prices? Also, I am new to the Pattern 1914 Enfield and I was wondering if there are any special items to look for? Manufacturers? Dates? serial number ranges? I see a couple that have volley sights. Are spare parts available for the rear and front volley sights? One I found is missing the volley sights but the stock is set up for them. Thanks for all of the help.
shails		#1	[-]
Posts: 13 (09/21/09 05:45 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Mate I'm Australian so price wise I can't help you. But If you can see if you can find a book called - British Enfield Rifles volume 4 The Pattern 1914 and U.S. model 1917 rifles. It's by Charles R. Stratton, it's put out by North Cape Publications. I got my copy of amazon.com for $10 or $15, it's well worth it. Hope you have luck.
millwright39		#2	[-]
Posts: 339 (09/21/09 07:37 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The most I can help-Picked this up local-about 2hrs away Its a Winchester all parts marked so- but in a 1917 stock. bore Nice as with the metal This was about a year ago- Got to look it over first and such--A little under 5 bills for it. early
bambam91		#3	[-]
Posts: 162 (09/22/09 09:32 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Shails, I actually have that book. I guess what I am looking for are things that are not in the books. I do not know: I.E. Hints on what stocks fit better, which manufacturers are better, etc.. Like with the Lee based enfields: Ishapores are not as desirable as say BSA or Faz rifles. I guess I do not know what I do not know. That is why I am asking. I can read the books. I just want the street info.
eckman44		#4	[-]
Posts: 494 (09/23/09 07:19 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Breaks down like this to me anyway 1st is Winchester Range from $450 to $600 depending if matching,bore condition and if a MKI or MKI* 2nd is Remington Range $450 to $500 depending see above 3rd is Eddystone Range $350 to $450 Depending 88see above** Also do they have original volley sights ( complete volley sights) Is the stock a MKII replacement? ie: Looks like an M1917 stock -- there were P14 stocks made that doe not have the cut for the front volley sight plate, you can tell which stock is am M1917 or a MKII P14 by how may holes are in the butt under the butt plate. Now I see Winchesters and Eddystones more often then I see a Remington alot more so depends on whats in your area. Parts that should carry the receiver serial number bolt barrel rear sight
bambam91		#5	[-]
Posts: 163 (09/28/09 12:26 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Well a day late and a dollar short. I missed an opportunity for a P14 Remington with the volley sight stock but missing the front volley sight (rear in place). Appeared to be all metal matching but with an E marked stock. Included a Remington bayonet. Asking $400.00. I missed it on GunBroker. I got busy and the deadline came and went. It was not re-listed. Oh, well. "Keep searching Keep searching You'll find it!" -Saucy Bernaise History of the World Part 1.
Patt14		#6	[-]
Posts: 4 (10/01/09 10:22 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Prices are determined by features like overall matching parts, condition and rarity among other things. My pattern 14 (now a No.3 Mk II E, because of the Weedon Repair Standard ) is in excellent condition with a surperb stock and 98% finish remaining on the metal and I paid $500 for it. By the way, its an all-matching Eddystone, and will out shoot a Wincester any day of the week and looks better than most of the ones I have seen.
DUSM		#7	[-]
Posts: 187 (10/01/09 06:47 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Condition is everything. This early ERA, in the 10,000 range, was $739 shipped, and it is 100% original. With the exception of some small amount of blue wear, it is in as issued condition.
RichieRich3902		#8	[-]
Posts: 1346 (10/02/09 11:26 AM) Host Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	One of my favorite P.14's an ERA that was overhauled in Canada, still a Mk.1 Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once. -William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar
eckman44		#9	[-]
Posts: 496 (10/02/09 04:25 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	DUSM -- You rifle is EY marked which means "emergency use" only fire ball ammo in an emergency. That would be one I would not buy due to the EY markings. I'd be leary of fring it myself. All three of mine were $350 each.
DUSM		#10	[-]
Posts: 188 (10/02/09 07:01 PM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	A great many early Mk I rifles were marked EY. It dates to British doubts as to the quality of the rifles they started receiving in 1916, and the EY was not stamped because the rifle was worn out. The rifle is in brand new condition, and gauges perfectly with British Army gauges. It drives tacks on the range. It is the only 100% original, as issued Patt '14 I have ever personally come across.
Ed Novak		#11	[-]
Posts: 2132 (10/02/09 07:36 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	EY does not mean that a rifle is unsafe to fire; simply that it is for "emergency use only" which could well mean many things. Not the same as "DP" at all. My spare tire could well be labeled "EY" and be perfectly functional. NRA Endowment member LECS #2
eckman44	I have not seen but three P14's with the EY markings	#12	[-]
Posts: 499 (10/02/09 08:59 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	DUSM wrote: A great many early Mk I rifles were marked EY. It dates to British doubts as to the quality of the rifles they started receiving in 1916, and the EY was not stamped because the rifle was worn out. The rifle is in brand new condition, and gauges perfectly with British Army gauges. It drives tacks on the range. It is the only 100% original, as issued Patt '14 I have ever personally come across. I have not seen any reference to the Brits marking them EY due to the suspect quality of the rifles only reference I have is the Brits made the change to the longer locking lug sometime in early production in 1916 , hence the * marking on the P14's. Do you have a reference for the statement above about the EY markings? Not starting a conflict just would like to see it as I have not hear that.
eckman44	Doesn't mean it is safe either	#13	[-]
Posts: 500 (10/02/09 09:06 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ed Novak wrote: EY does not mean that a rifle is unsafe to fire; simply that it is for "emergency use only" which could well mean many things. Not the same as "DP" at all. My spare tire could well be labeled "EY" and be perfectly functional. The EY as per Skennertons book is Only fire ball ammo in case of emergency. Has to be some kind of reason for that , what the reason is I wouldn't know as I am not an amorer, I just know I wouldn't be pulling the trigger unitl I had someone like Brian Dick check it out and give the ok that it is safe to fire. As far as the tire thing -- the "donut" spare tires are for emergecny use but only for so long and at a certain speed.
Ed Novak		#14	[-]
Posts: 2133 (10/02/09 10:51 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	My personal reflection about "EY" over the past many years in correspondence on several fora regarding LEs is that the EY stamped rifles were, simply, considered as "emergency use only" rifles, not necessarily for lack of safety in use but rather for their being obsolescent/obsolete and being relegated to 2d, 3d or lesser category use. Skennerton has a significant level of liability as a notable author on the LE; I deeply respect his authority but I also clearly understand his liability insurance issues. I researched the "EY" issue many years ago in discussions on international LE fora since I have held a 1904 BSA Mk.I** I.P. stamped "EY" for many years, which rifle has a '43 HV barrel in excellent condition, which easily passes the FR gauging, shoots quite well producing fired brass with no evidence of defect on use. As always, the caveat on ANY used milsurp firearm is that the owner should have a qualified gun-smith inspect the arm and give it a passing score for safe use of live ammunition, regardless of the rifle's stampings. I am of the opinion that "EY" does not mean that the rifle was necessarily considered as "unsafe for live ammunition" but that it was for "emergency use only". My contention is that an "EY" stamped rifle can deserve a closer look and qualified inspection rather than assuming it unsafe for use. Your points are well taken and appropriate, IMHO. Thanks for opening the issue for review and discussion. ed NRA Endowment member LECS #2
DUSM		#15	[-]
Posts: 189 (10/03/09 07:17 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	eckman44 wrote: DUSM wrote: A great many early Mk I rifles were marked EY. It dates to British doubts as to the quality of the rifles they started receiving in 1916, and the EY was not stamped because the rifle was worn out. The rifle is in brand new condition, and gauges perfectly with British Army gauges. It drives tacks on the range. It is the only 100% original, as issued Patt '14 I have ever personally come across. I have not seen any reference to the Brits marking them EY due to the suspect quality of the rifles only reference I have is the Brits made the change to the longer locking lug sometime in early production in 1916 , hence the * marking on the P14's. Do you have a reference for the statement above about the EY markings? Not starting a conflict just would like to see it as I have not hear that. Based on a conversation with Herb Woodend back in the 1980s when I was stationed in the UK. It was based on feeding issues on some early rifles and that the Mk I rifles still have the original bolt with the short left locking lug. eckman44, if the rifle was unsafe, it would have been relegated to drill status, and appropriately marked. Brian is a good man, but he isn't going to do more than gauge the rifle, which anyone with the requisite knowledge and gauges can accomplish.. He isn't going to conduct an NDI inspection, or chemical analysis of a sample of the steel. Not a flame, just a fact. Last Edited By: DUSM 10/03/09 09:30 AM. Edited 4 times.
DUSM		#16	[-]
Posts: 190 (10/03/09 09:47 AM) active member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	My gut instinct says it was marked EY because it had not been brought to Mk I* standards, and hence was a non standard pattern. P.S. Skip Stratton has a blurb about this on page 26 of his volume "Pattern 1914 and U.S. Model of 1917" Last Edited By: DUSM 10/04/09 09:54 AM. Edited 1 times.
Carl Gustav		#17	[-]
Posts: 3507 (10/04/09 07:53 PM) Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I have a Pattern 14 Enfield, Remington manufactured, serial number 20110, with a matching bolt but without the * mark indicating it probably wasn't upgraded. It was imported by Century and I got it from a local gun shop ten or so years ago. The stock cartouche above PAT 14 is an IW in a circle but nothing below. I fired it and lived to tell the tale. I've got to take it out again soon and use up some of my stash of HXP ammo. Carl
Patt14		#18	[-]
Posts: 7 (10/05/09 07:47 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	DUSM, My rifles serial # is 4810 and was one of the first built at the Baldwin Locomotive Plant in Eddystone, Pennsylvania. After 93 years of service abroad it has come home to Pennsylvania.
eckman44		#19	[-]
Posts: 501 (10/07/09 07:38 PM) Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I guess it could be marked EY because it was not brought to MKI* specs -- you would have thought that they would have marked all MKI's like that then.
ball3006	If anyone is looking for a P14....	#20	[-]
Posts: 1734 (10/09/09 08:47 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Military Gun Supply in Fort Worth has about a dozen on the wall there. They show alot of carry wear but the two I picked up, that needed some missing parts, had nice bores. The ERA has a perfect bore and the RE bore shows wear but is shiney. Receiver, bolt, barrel, and rear sight serial numbers match. The RE needs a new stock. Both need handguards and triggerguards. For 250 bucks for the both, I just could not pass them up. The price for a complete rifle at MGS is 500 bucks. I believe these rifles came from India as the barrel has that green paint on them....chris3