Model 41 Carcano in French & Italian Rifle Forum Forum

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Model 41 Carcano

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BradM

Model 41 Carcano

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Posts: 486

Apr 26 12 1:48 PM

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I recently bought a Model 41 Carcano from a very reputable dealer I have bought from before. The description of the rifle said "Wood has its original finish..." When I received the rifle, the wood finish is pretty glossy. Is that the original finish for this type rifle or not? I'm happy with it, but usually these folks descriptions are very accurate, and this doesn't look like a military finish to me. My knowledge of Carcanos is minimal.
Also is the correct designation for the "Model 41" actually Model 91/41? TIA.

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Doc AV

Chinese LC 52

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Posts: 2412

May 1 12 7:37 AM

Veteran member

The origin of Chinese Made "LC52" Cal.30 M1 carbine ammo is a mystery. It first showed up with "Cloned" M14s( and Steel cased "RG L2A2 7,62 ammo) in the Philippines and old US carbines with one of those "Moro" groups in Southern Mindanao. The insurgents support fell thru, and the Cloned M14s became the Norinco M305 in semiauto, and the ammo etc was surplussed into the USA in the 1980s.
PRC also made some M1 Carbines of their own ( or at least the receivers) in the 1960s, basing themselves on captured Carbines from Korea.

China has a long history of "Pirating/cloning" firearms and ammo, so this is nothing new.
All Chinese ammo before the early 1990s was highly corrosive ( same primer compo. as the Russian derived calibres.)

Regards,
Doc AV

junkbug

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Posts: 68

May 1 12 12:14 PM

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DOC AV must have been answering another post.

The M41 Carcano, as well as other models, was commonly refurbished after the second world war (1946-47) in Italian arsenals both as a "make work" project, and to prepare them for sale on the surplus market. Many have a glossier than usual finish, after this process. It is not in the condiction it was in during the war, but may be an honest arsenal refurbishment finish.

Of course, it could have also been varnished decades later by a civilian owner. Good pictures would help tell.

eagle7

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Posts: 4623

May 6 12 5:13 PM

Most of the M91/41 Carcano stocks I've seen that were most probably original seemed to be unfinished and very dry. That makes sense since the 1941 - 1943 time period was not a good time for the Fascists and Italian industry. I think those guns may have got a quick spray varnish job before they were rushed to troops in North Africa, Russia, the Balkans, etc... Many of the beech stocks on guns from this era also show signs of not being totally seasoned when the guns were assembled; they have shrinkage cracks around the back of the receiver, magazine housing, etc.

After the war many were refurbished at the arsenal level, and many others were gussied up by Italian export companies. American importers also employed Italian gunsmithing firms to QC, refinish, and even sporterize surplus Carcanos before they were shipped. It is possible that a glossy finish was applied before the rifle ever arrived in the USA. I have noticed that a lot of these imported guns have been stained/sealed with some kind of "fruitwood" color semi-gloss stain. These guns also show signs of sanding during the refurbishment process (shallow inletting of metal parts, original factory cartouches only faintly visible). Does your rifle have a readable Terni factory stamp on the buttstock, or just a round "ghost" ring where it used to be?

settecamini.exordinanza

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Posts: 34

Jun 6 12 3:07 PM

.il91.it se puo' servirti .. la finitura da quelli che ho visto non era lucida. saluti fabio !

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Chief Oshkosh

M41 Carcano

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Posts: 1199

Dec 22 12 4:28 PM

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I have such an M1941 long rifle that was obviously refurbished after the war. Got it from Springfield Sporters way back when they still sold actual guns. A refurbishment is apparent especially with the handguard, of different wood, which is cut and sanded to a cruder degree than the stock. Might have also been re-blued. There is also quite a bit of rust pitting below the wood line. I've often wondered to what degree this pitting is detrimental. Any ideas on this? I think that most of the surviving Carcanos came from Albania and maybe Libya or Greece, but the former Soviet Union can't be ruled out and a number of them came from Finland (there's SAs to be had). The Finns hated them for good reasons.

eagle7

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Posts: 4623

Dec 23 12 8:08 PM

The last batch of Carcanos to be imported came from Albania and some of the former territories of Yugoslavia ( Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Macedonia), and most were pretty shopworn. Russia and Ukraine haven't ever imported any Carcanos though there may be a stash or two in those two nations. Most of the Italian 8th Army was wiped out in the Ukraine in early 1943, and their 100,000 or so small arms were probably retrieved by the Soviets. The last Middle Eastern Carcanos imported were the TS and CavalryCarbines rerifled to 7.92mm Mauser. These were used as training weapons.

The [SA] stamped Carcanos were sold to Finland in 1940, after the Winter War ended. Finland bought about 100,000 and yes, they were not popular with the Finn troops. They all seem to be Model 1938 Short Rifles chambered in 7.35 x 51mm caliber. Italy retained a small number of 7.35mm chambered Model 38 short rifles, TS carbines, and Cav carbines, and these are more desirable than the [SA] stamped guns.

Chief Oshkosh

re: eagle 7

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Posts: 1199

Dec 24 12 6:03 PM

Veteran member

SOG sold just about every Carcano variety about 10 years ago, except for the M91 long rifle which I have. They offered M91 and M38 cavalry carbines, M91/24, M91/28 and M38. I bought each of these from them except the M91 cavalry carbine. These definitely came from Albania. All NRA good. Last time Carcanos were sold in these quantities from an online dealer. Occasionally ones in great condition show up at Empire Arms, but at steep prices. I like the honest worn character of those I have.

eagle7

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Posts: 4623

Dec 25 12 1:54 PM

Yeah, I remember a wave of the various cav and TS carbines coming in back in 2001 -02, but IIRC, they came from Century. I remember full page Century ads in Shotgun News featuring them. The first batches were classified as "good" and they were followed by a ton of U-fix-em specials. I think most of the M41 rifles came from Italy in the late 1950s - early 1960s, after they went through an Italian military refurbishment. Many of these guns have the "MADE ITALY" stamp on the buttstock, and/or various oval or square rearsenal stamps reading FAG, FAT, or FAB and dates mostly from the late 1940s.

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