My 'new' Lee Enfield No 4 MK 2 10/49 Suid Afrika in The Lee Enfield Forum Forum

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My 'new' Lee Enfield No 4 MK 2 10/49 Suid Afrika

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Michael Terreblanche	My 'new' Lee Enfield No 4 MK 2 10/49 Suid Afrika	Lead	[-]
Posts: 14 May 15 12 4:03 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Hello This is a couple of photos of my 'new' Lee Enfield. I bought it from my mother in law whos husband bought it from the South African army, not entirely sure when. I saw this is a great sight with lot of enthusiasts and whould like to join the forum. I am not entirely sure about a couple of the markings on the rife, such as M.B.13 behind the front sight. I whould like to know more about my specific rifle and Enfields in general. I read from your site it was in the first batch of MK 2's made in england, 1949, and asume 10 meansOktober. Also not entireley sure about the x (kross stamp) on the bolt, and a couple of other places. All the cerial numbers match on my rifle. Thanks en Dankie
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Michael Terreblanche		#1	[-]
Posts: 14 May 15 12 4:09 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	See I got the photo upload rong, its in my profile or something...
A square 10		#2	[-]
Posts: 1920 May 16 12 1:08 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	no worries , glad you joined us , post them when you can get it figured out - took me a while to get the knack but its fairly easy when you sort it all out , yes 10 is october , the mk2 was introduced/adopted in march of 49 , the "X" if flanked by S & A is the south african ownership/acceptance marking , they could also be proof mark = crossed pendants with crown/GR above and P below for england - the place of mfgr , the sout african barrel may have crossed pendants with a U above and P below as well , dont know what the M.B.13 is ......sure someone more knowledgable will happen by , Amatikulu ? In these times 'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my gun and my money. Anyone that supports this insanity can keep "THE CHANGE".
Michael Terreblanche		#3	[-]
Posts: 14 May 19 12 4:04 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts
Michael Terreblanche		#4	[-]
Posts: 14 May 19 12 4:11 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Got the photos on, I did not see the S & A markings, Just a N below the crown (Behind trigger and on top of the chamber), BN on the bolt and B 87 with 'cross' in front of the mag. I also got 5 stripper clips a few days ago. Thanks a lot for comenting, I apreciate it!
BobM14		#5	[-]
Posts: 2549 May 19 12 8:00 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	It looks to be a nice rifle, Michael, and the pictures are excellent. Nice work. The MB 13 marking on the handguard is not uncommon. I expect it is a makers mark, as I have seen several on different rifles.
Bear43		#6	[-]
Posts: 982 May 19 12 8:38 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Those are some great pictures and that is a very nice rifle. I have yet to add a Mk 2 to my collection. I worked on one and they are nice shooting rifles.
Ed Novak		#7	[-]
Posts: 4318 May 20 12 12:45 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	MB13 and the numbers on the sling band are likely manufacturer's codes. I see an acceptance arrow on the band and 'F' on the foresight block (Fazakerly). Photos of the top of the receiver and the left side of the butt-socket would be helpful. You may find numbers on the underside of the bolt handle which match numbers on the right receiver wall beneath the root of the bolt handle - these are 'batching marks, used to keep the bolt assigned to the receiver during manufacture, before the actual serial numbers are assigned and placed on the bolt handle and the left butt-socket. 'N' on the butt stock indicates 'normal length' and 'N' in other locations likely are manufacturer codes. For a collector who is holding a Fazakerly rifle, 'F' stamped on the metal parts is desirable - including the back sight and, of course, matching bolt and butt-socket numbers are highly desirable. You have a very nice rifle; thanks for showing it and welcome to this site! ed NRA Endowment member LECS #2 Air Force Association Life Member MOAA Member
Michael Terreblanche		#8	[-]
Posts: 14 May 21 12 4:37 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks Ed, I will try to get those photos on as quickly as I can, away from home at hte moment. I dont think there is anything on the left side of the butt-socket but will check. I apreciate it.
BobM14		#9	[-]
Posts: 2549 May 21 12 11:21 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Michael, your Mk2 buttsocket will not be marked, other than some inspection stamps.
A square 10		#10	[-]
Posts: 1920 May 21 12 6:38 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	shes a beauty for sure , thats the way i like them - not pristine , but in excellent used condition , 'been there-done that' look , without abuse In these times 'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my gun and my money. Anyone that supports this insanity can keep "THE CHANGE".
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Ed Novak		#11	[-]
Posts: 4318 May 22 12 4:35 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	A long time has passed since I last held a Mk 2 in my hands so I apologize for my remarks regarding data stamped on the left buttsocket. My last Mk 2 went to my daughter-in-law in ID several years ago and I held it for such a short time that I likely didn't get to 'know it' at all before I sent it to her. ed NRA Endowment member LECS #2 Air Force Association Life Member MOAA Member
BobM14		#12	[-]
Posts: 2549 May 22 12 5:14 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Sometimes we "draw a blank" when it comes to remembering things we know. Last year sometime there was a discussion on one of these forums that brought up the question of what would be our favorite (the best) bolt action rifle of the two World Wars. Someone (I think it was Eb) offered the opinion that the Enfield was superior, and the detachable magazine was quite an advantage. I argued (briefly ) that the detachable magazine offered no advantage unless it had a higher capacity, and in fact, was detrimental due to the possibility of it getting damaged or lost. I totally did not think of the fact that it held more rounds than the M1903 or M98 Mauser......every once in awhile we manage to "step in it"......
Ed Novak		#13	[-]
Posts: 4318 May 23 12 1:03 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	There is a TV show where 'Gunny' Ermy has a target shooting competition with an ex-pat Brit; 20 plates, two rows 10 each on a rack. Gunny extols the '03 and gives the Brit grudging respect for his SMLE's virtues. The Brit, of course, shoots the 20 plates while Gunny gets something like 15. The credit is, of course, given to the 10-rd SMLE magazine. This competition is intended as a demonstration of WWI/Great War riflery. THEN Gunny brings out the M-1 'GuhRAND' for a "WWII" competition and wins the second round by about 5 plates against the SMLE and, of course, "rubs it in". I think that those of us who honor the concept that the LE magazine was/is to be charged, not used like a 'clip' get a bit irritated with suggestions that it was/is a device to be preloaded and replaced when empty with another charged magazine - one of those 'Enfield Pride' things, I guess and I admit that I 'bristle' when I read postings by persons who marvel at the 'removable' magazine but I am beginning to learn to hold my tongue (68 year learning/training process). One of my friends owns a couple/three 'black rifles' and kids me that I own MNs to make my LEs look better. ed NRA Endowment member LECS #2 Air Force Association Life Member MOAA Member
BobM14		#14	[-]
Posts: 2549 May 23 12 2:57 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I suppose whether it be "pride" or simply recognizing the truth, facts are that the Enfield armed soldier did not carry a cartridge belt with pouches of loaded magazines. They carried loaded charging clips. Once familiar with and competent with, charger loading, it can be accomplished as fast or faster than changing magazines. Especially when you consider the idea that one would have to account for (stow away) the empty magazines as changed. There are alot of misgivings, and of course varying opinions with regard to some of the things we often discuss. But some things are just facts, and one can't reasonably discount factual data as a "difference of opinion" just because one doesn't see it that way.
A square 10		#15	[-]
Posts: 1920 May 23 12 3:42 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	when looking at it that way - neither did the US soldier carry loaded 'magazines' in WWI or WWII , in the first he carried two stripper clips to one charger and in the second he carried enbloc clips that were two round less than the commonwealth chargers , only the BAR and various submachineguns were equiped with multiple magazines , it was not untill the M-14 that the US troops started using multiple mags , as standard practice , each system has its pros and cons , i find the enfeild most agreeable in a majority of situations , In these times 'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my gun and my money. Anyone that supports this insanity can keep "THE CHANGE".
6MD		#16	[-]
Posts: 50 May 23 12 11:32 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	A square 10 wrote: when looking at it that way - neither did the US soldier carry loaded 'magazines' in WWI or WWII , in the first he carried two stripper clips to one charger and in the second he carried enbloc clips that were two round less than the commonwealth chargers , only the BAR and various submachineguns were equiped with multiple magazines , it was not untill the M-14 that the US troops started using multiple mags , as standard practice , each system has its pros and cons , i find the enfeild most agreeable in a majority of situations , .303 Charger clips hold 5 rounds, always have. What about the M1 Carbine? Didn't they have a two magazine pouch supplied for the butt?
Michael Terreblanche		#17	[-]
Posts: 14 May 24 12 3:45 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Just to check, what is the differance between stripper clips and charging clips? I have five stripper clips (as I know them) and they work excellent once you know how to put in the rounds :-)
6MD		#18	[-]
Posts: 50 May 24 12 5:18 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Michael Terreblanche wrote: Just to check, what is the differance between stripper clips and charging clips? I have five stripper clips (as I know them) and they work excellent once you know how to put in the rounds :-) Exactly the same beast, At one stage all our Milsurp ammo came in 50 round bandoliers (10 x 5 rounds in a stripper clip) in 10 bandolier sardine keyed tins for tropical distribution.
Ed Novak		#19	[-]
Posts: 4318 May 24 12 10:00 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Please, please and please do not start another of the interminable 'charger loading sequence' debates here! TIA. ed NRA Endowment member LECS #2 Air Force Association Life Member MOAA Member
BobM14		#20	[-]
Posts: 2549 May 24 12 10:10 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	"interminable"? I thought that was educational, at least for those misinformed on the subject. 6MD Actually, both of the two main issued (there were "riggers" pouches and the like) 15 round carbine magazine pouches used in WW2 were belt pouches. One type (on the left in picture) was sometimes mounted on the buttstock by soldiers, although that was a field adaptation, not a designated practice. There is a snap in the middle of the back of this pouch type, to snap to the cartridge web belt. I removed the snap on the pictured pouch so as not to mar the stock when it is mounted to the butt. Last Edited By: BobM14 May 24 12 10:15 AM. Edited 1 times.
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