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Mas-36 question

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dutchmills

Mas-36 question

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Posts: 1236

Jun 30 12 11:23 AM

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my Mas-36 has a counter bored muzzle, made this way? or arsenal re-work? bore is bright and sharp, wood is new, has been something like parkerized. Mas M-36 markings are faint. serial number prefix is a script "M" comments?? thanks, DM

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1886lebel

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Posts: 382

Jun 30 12 10:11 PM

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Question: I noticed that my MAS 36 is counter-barreled about a quarter inch on the inside of the bore. Is this part of the refurb process or the way they were made? Does it affect the accuracy of the rifle?
Answer: All MAS 36 counter-bored barrels were factory built that way, these originally intended for the rifles to be used for grenade launching (MAS 36 LG48), it was extended to the whole production, so a standard rifle could be transformed into a dedicated grenade launcher by only swapping parts.
These counterbored barrels have a large G stamped on the left side ahead of the front sight, they are found on all MAS 36 rifles built after 1948 starting with the Q series and can also be found on earlier production rifles rebarreled in the 60's. The counter-boring doesn't affect the rifles accuracy.

The vast majority of M series were made in 1946.

Patrick

Vive La République Française, le Lebel et le poilu
Verdun 1916: "Ils ne Passeront pas" "On les aura!"
Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 dit "Lebel"

Vive le Pinard !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axfM1sFqIK0

dutchmills

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Jul 1 12 10:07 AM

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Thank you Sir!! Is there any easy way to move the front sight? my rifle shoots a bit off to one side at 100 yards, other than that, its very accurate. Hats off to the French for this rifle , the bolt is simplicity itself, thats good engineering DM

1886lebel

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Posts: 382

Jul 1 12 12:48 PM

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Question: How to correctly make Sight Adjustments to MAS 36's ?
Answer: The correct way of adjusting a Mas 36 is by replacing its rear sight leaf by another one with the peep hole drilled off center. There should be a letter or several signs stamped on the top of the rear sight leaf, indicating if it is centered or offset.

Value of offset
N = 0 (centered)
-4 or +4 = bring the group 135mm down or up at 200M
-8 or +8 = bring the group 270mm down or up at 200M
D4 or G4 = move the group 135mm to the right or to the left at 200M
D8 or G8 = move the group 270mm to the right or to the left at 200M

D = Droite/Right, G = Gauche/Left

For the post WWII rifles there are 24 different rear sight leaf available for adjustment beside the N sight and only 8 for the pre WWII models. As for any modification to the fit of the barrel in the forend and handguard, it is best to leave it as is was designed unless you are very experimented in tuning rifles.

Post-WWII

Pre-WWII

Here is an excellent way to determine which rear sight leaf you will need ....
Take your usual 100 yards targets you shoot at, draw square blocks on it, depending on the distance you are shooting, 100 yards 2.43" x 2.43" or 100 meters 67,5 mm x 67,5 mm and fire away. You shot cluster will indicate the adjustment leaf you need.

Here is an example of a French C200 Target with the 25 blocks representing the available leaf for a post WWII Mas 36 drawn in black and the 9 leaf for a pre WWII rifle drawn in red.

Patrick

Vive La République Française, le Lebel et le poilu
Verdun 1916: "Ils ne Passeront pas" "On les aura!"
Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 dit "Lebel"

Vive le Pinard !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axfM1sFqIK0

Last Edited By: 1886lebel Jul 1 12 12:53 PM. Edited 1 times.

dutchmills

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Posts: 1236

Jul 2 12 10:56 AM

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now, that is what you call serious information! Thank you for taking the time and effort to post all of that, it is appreciated! Close examination of the rear sight with a magnifying glass reveals....nothing, the sight is un-marked. I havent fired this rifle in a year or 2, but my records show it grouped 3 shots into an inch and a half, 6 inches to the right of point of aim, at 100 yards. this was with a hand load. I believe that i will try other handloads and see if that makes a difference, if not, then i will apply "Kentucky" windage and be happy with what i have. This will have to wait untill fall as it is too bloody hot right now. again, thank youi DM

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eb in oregon

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Posts: 2510

Jul 3 12 12:10 PM

"Answer: The correct way of adjusting a Mas 36 is by replacing its rear sight leaf by another one with the peep hole drilled off center. "

Ah, the French! Sometimes they can be so creative, for all the wrong reasons.

I'd sure hate to have been a unit armorer during "sight in days" with this type of adjustment system. Simple is best.

"We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."
Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776

1886lebel

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Posts: 382

Jul 3 12 12:45 PM

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The way they sighted them in was at a test range with a rifle rest with the weapon strapped into it, this way no movement occured during firing. Unit armorers probably had thousands of the different variation sights on hand to make the swap

Patrick

Vive La République Française, le Lebel et le poilu
Verdun 1916: "Ils ne Passeront pas" "On les aura!"
Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 dit "Lebel"

Vive le Pinard !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axfM1sFqIK0

eb in oregon

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Posts: 2510

Jul 3 12 10:52 PM

1886lebel wrote:
The way they sighted them in was at a test range with a rifle rest with the weapon strapped into it, this way no movement occured during firing. Unit armorers probably had thousands of the different variation sights on hand to make the swap
Patrick

I'm quite sure your are absolutely correct. Regardless, even needing to replace only half of the sights, on half the rifles of an Infantry company, would be a real chore. And yes, I have looked closely at how it works and that it is "merely one pin" and some fiddling around. Doing this for 50 or 60 rifles wouldn't be my idea of a good time. Obviously the engineers (as most mechanical engineers) never gave much thought on "how hard is this to fix."

Each and every rifle must be sighted by the firer, as the firer would hold and shoot the rifle, to be really accurate. I think you know this. So to my mind, the French were happy with "close enough."

Personally, I like mine.

"We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."
Benjamin Franklin, July 4 1776

1886lebel

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Posts: 382

Jul 3 12 11:15 PM

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This system was used a few years prior to the adoption of the Fusil a Répétition de 7,5mm Modèle 1936 with the Fusil de Infanterie Modèle 1907-1915 Modifié 1934 which had rear sights like the 1936 to adjust for azimuth/deflection.
I understand that actual shooting was very close to the factory setting, if it needed any adjustments then it was just a simple swap of the sights, I know the one that I own is dead-on

Patrick

Vive La République Française, le Lebel et le poilu
Verdun 1916: "Ils ne Passeront pas" "On les aura!"
Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 dit "Lebel"

Vive le Pinard !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axfM1sFqIK0

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