P1853 stock maker's name in Black Powder Muzzle Loaders Forum

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P1853 stock maker's name

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nothernug	P1853 stock maker's name	Lead	[-]
Posts: 13336 Nov 15 12 9:33 PM Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Now, this is attention to detail... I have a first generation Parker-Hale P1853. From all I have heard, as far as repro rifles are concerned, this is as close as you can get to an original though, they followed the 4th model pattern more than a true Civil War version. But, I have been enjoying a book on the pattern 1853 rifles. The stock making company or shop owner was customarily stamped on the outside bottom of the butt stock but, the actual person who made or finished* the stock used to stamp his name in the ramrod channel. I decided to look in my PH stock's channel just for the heck of it and what do you know?! Well, look at the pics. It was a common practice to have apprentices rough out the stock letting more skilled and experienced workers to inlet and finish the stocks (that was the procedure in just about any hand manufacturing process.) It's in the channel just above where it goes inside the stock ahead of the trigger guard. I supposed that is the name of the actual person who made the stock. If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. Sam Adams Last Edited By: nothernug Nov 15 12 9:36 PM. Edited 1 time.
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Bear43		#1	[-]
Posts: 983 Nov 16 12 4:32 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I honestly have mixed feelings about that sort of detail on reproductions. On the one hand it is nice to see the company cares enough to mimic the originals to such a degree. On the other hand it is easily used by unscrupulous people to prey on the uninformed buyers. How many reproduction K98 slings have been artificially weathered and then passed off as originals? I have even seen reproduction revolvers that had their manufacturer's marks removed then were restamped and weathered to try and make them look like well worn originals. It's pretty disgusting how some people will try and take neat little bonuses like this and use them for ill.
nothernug		#2	[-]
Posts: 13336 Nov 17 12 7:53 PM Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	It's pretty disgusting how some people will try and take neat little bonuses like this and use them for ill. It is at that! But, to some degree the seller has to accept some responsibility for failing to do their homework before buying, especially in a field known to be heavily faked. That is one reason I kept the PH lock on it considering the modifications done to make it appear more period correct. There are people out their who will "defarb" a reproduction musket to be as close in appearance to an original as may be done. It wouldn't be much of a step to take one of those and 'age' it to pass as an original. Frankly though, if you check the pricing some of these repros aren't selling so far below the price of some originals to make a profit justifiable to the risk. If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. Sam Adams
Bear43		#3	[-]
Posts: 983 Nov 19 12 1:55 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	We really have the replica manufacturers to thank to some degree for there being less of a disparity between the prices of the originals and the reproductions. From what I have seen it seems like most of them have really stepped up their games in the last few years. It does not bother me that the reproductions are high priced, if they are quality and discourage the forgers then I am all for it. Plus, it does cost more to take the time to add things like the name in the barrel channel of your P1853 and that is a price increase that is worth it in my opinion.
nothernug		#4	[-]
Posts: 13336 Nov 21 12 12:21 AM Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	True but, you have to remember one thing... My piece was made in the 1970s. If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. Sam Adams
Bear43		#5	[-]
Posts: 983 Nov 21 12 9:14 AM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Now that is the tidbit I didn't know. So now it has me wondering how a newer production piece would stack up against yours in the details department.
nothernug		#6	[-]
Posts: 13336 Nov 21 12 3:06 PM Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Don't know. It would be intersting to find out. I was hoping some folks with them might pipe up. Yeah, I didn't think that some folk might not have been aware that "first gen" PH were made in the 70s. They used some of the dies, forms, patterns and such from original P1853 production. However, not every thing was 'right', stock was a bit heavier, had the 4th model "Baddeley" bands and the markings were P-H so strictly speaking, for re-enacting it still needed "defarbed." Weren't so many doing that back in the 80s when I marched with Lee. I lost some of my images so I'll see if I can make some new (and better) pics. Well, wait. I still have those images right here stored in Yucku. I still need a better whole rifle pic than this... If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. Sam Adams
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Bear43		#7	[-]
Posts: 983 Nov 21 12 3:24 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Do you have any pictures of the bands? You mentioned before that they were 4th model and I am wondering about the differences. I am already making a wishlist for down the road and a P1853 is one of those items on that list. While doing my inventory I even found 4 lbs of Swiss Black Powder that I forgot I had. I have lots of smokepole shooting to do in the future
nothernug		#8	[-]
Posts: 13336 Nov 22 12 1:14 PM Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Below are the bands on my rifle. They are original 1st model bands used to replace the Baddaley bands. You can find an image of the "Baddeley" bands here- http://books.google.com/books?id=acIcEfE6QbgC&dq=baddeley+barrel+bands&q=18#v=snippet&q=18&f=false That site will be page 18 of an 'e-book' version of a book I have. It's an Osprey book. Here's some more shots of my rifle... (I carved the star for Texas into the stock mainly for easy ID and to discourage theft. I also have harder to find marks identifying it as mine. Still, it speaks well of the reenacting group of folks that thievery is (or at least was in my day) relatively rare. Still as the Boy Scouts taught me, "always be prepared." If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. Sam Adams
Bear43		#9	[-]
Posts: 983 Nov 23 12 4:05 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks for the link to that book, that is a really good resource. Nice pictures you posted up too. That's a pretty ingenious and tasteful way of marking your rifle.
nothernug		#10	[-]
Posts: 13336 Nov 24 12 2:34 AM Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Actually, that was for rapid ID easily claimed by any. The, (I think) "ingenious" way of marking my rifles is this... Note the "JG"? Those are my initials. Most reenactors aren't gun collectors. My thoughts were that most would just take those letters (marked about two other places too) to be inspectors stamps if they noticed them at all. A few guys in my 'outfit' knew about them too so they could back me up on their origin and meaning. If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. Sam Adams
Bear43		#11	[-]
Posts: 983 Nov 26 12 10:44 AM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I know you mentioned having your initials on there before, and that is quite well done. It does pretty much look like it's supposed to be there without being too obvious.
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P1853 stock maker's name

P1853 stock maker's name