again w/ the serial number in The Czech Military Rifle Forum Forum

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again w/ the serial number

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peter duncan	again w/ the serial number	Lead	[-]
Posts: 11 Jan 8 13 4:39 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Guys I'm new here-pardon what is probably an elementary question to you, however, after checking several other sites I can't find out anything about my newest acquisition- a VZ-24 in real nice shape-got an unscrubbed lion crest, numbers on receiver & barrel are 801 K3, and on the side rail reads Cz.BROJOVKA AKC. SPOL.VBRNE. Above the 801 K3 there are a couple of letters and a number that where stamped over, can't make them out. Sure appreciate any help, she's my first Czech (I have six other Mausers) might have to get some more. Thanks, Pete D.
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trautert		#1	[-]
Posts: 5717 Jan 8 13 9:13 PM Forum Site Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Someone who has an actual answer will be along shortly. In the meantime, welcome to Bill's place. Tom Ne Desit Virtus Rakkasans
peter duncan	again w/ the serial number	#2	[-]
Posts: 11 Jan 9 13 1:31 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Think I got this figured out-maybe-after checking the thread 1911 SHOOTER did, the way I understand it 260,000 rifles were built every time the Czechs went through the alphabet. So mine at no. 801 K3 is no. 189,801. Am I even anywhere near the ballpark? Wow-how many VZ-24's were built? And where does that put the rifle as far as a year built? There 's no date anywhere on it. Can anyone tell me at least the AKC. SPOL. VBRNE. is? Something to do with a certain factory, I'm guessing. The title Cs.BROJOVKA is the BRNO factory, is'nt it? Anyway, I'm sure glad I picked her up when I did, looked at AIM and SAMCO and they are out of stock. Will keep my eyes open for another, have developed quite a liking for old Mausers. Thanks you guys, Pete.
lwdavis		#3	[-]
Posts: 649 Jan 13 13 12:19 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I would have to check that 260,000 figure. I am not sure the Czech's used every letter and if their alphbet is exactly as ours. However you are way off, because the little 3 after the k means it is the 3rd. time thru the alphabet. My list of known/observed serials show only two K3's (one peened over) Both were excepted into Czech military service in 1935. That would be the date made (or late 34). I have never seen more then 4 numbers used on Czech accepted rifles but some have said they went to 5, I will wait until I see one however! Export rifles with a single letter pre-fix did go to 5 digits. As the K3 comes after the number the rifle was made at Brno, if it was ahead of the number it would have been made at Bysterica, Cezch. There is a date on your rifle you said you could not read it. The couple letters, number you see above serial is actually an E (small standing lion) 35 (probably 35). Use a magnifing glass and check closely, what is the overstamp? With a glass angled in light at different angle you may make them out!
peter duncan		#4	[-]
Posts: 11 Jan 15 13 1:08 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yes I guess I was way off- don't know how I did it but hit the 1 instead of the 7. Meant to say 789,803. Still as you say their alphabet may not be the same as ours. The overstamp is a little hard to describe, loos like two offset checkered squares but you were right- on dizzying close inspection with a magnifying glass I could read E- then I think the lion-then the 35. Thank you! I guess she must have seen action during WW2 but wasn't much or maybe was re-arsenaled after, with new stock cause the rifle is in real good shape for the age. Took her out today and everything works perfect, very accurate, my new favorite gun. Kind of curious as to why they would overstamp the date and not grind the lion crest off-sure glad they didn't. Anyway, thanks again for the help, I like to know the history of all my old firearms. Pete
lwdavis		#5	[-]
Posts: 649 Jan 15 13 3:50 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	As I said, it would make a difference if they used 4 digits (9,999 for each letter times 26 or number of letters they used) or 5 digits. I will stick with 4 digits till it is proved otherwise. Keep in mind this was the serial system that was used by the Czech military only, rifles meant for export was different. I think the E (L) date was not only an acceptence stamp but also an ownership (Czech government) stamp. Thus it was stipled/ lined over when the rifle went to Romania. I believe Brne is the Czech spelling of Brno, I have this info somewhere, would have to look it up. At Stalingrad a whole Romanian Army went over to the Russians, so it could possibly be a RC rebuild. However the Romanian rebuilds are much better done. Do a google search for Czech VZ-24 rifle, you may get more info. There is a site out there!
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peter duncan		#6	[-]
Posts: 11 Jan 15 13 10:00 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks again lw, will keep czeching. Whatever I find out, I'm still happy with the acquisition. I know if I found it 10 years ago I could have bought it for, oh, 18 cents and a pack of gum but $200 I can spend and if I see any more at that price (or even a little more) in this condition I'm pickin' them up. Good luck to me. Again, thanks for the info, Pete
dogngun	I think your count is off a bit...	#7	[-]
Posts: 282 Jan 16 13 6:22 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	My understanding of the batch system is this...The rifles made by VZ for the Romanian Contract were made in batches of 25,000, then went to the next letter...The Romanian rifles have a R after the batch indicator letter...for example, mine is an XR, one of the last batches...they supposedly made it into the Y batch before the Germans took control and ended that system. I believe mine was made in the 1940, probably mid to late in that year. Many of these rifles have taken a lot of abuse...I have had several and they were all still good shooters despite their appearance. I don't think the Czechs knew how to make a bad rifle...or handgun for that matter. mark
lwdavis		#8	[-]
Posts: 649 Jan 16 13 3:09 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Romanian contract were "export" rifles, different serial number system then Czech military. Export rifles used up to 5 digits. Romanians used 5 digits, so you are saying they just stopped at 25,000 instead of going to 99,999? Could be, highest numbers in my reference is are all in low 20 thou. However the rifle in question here was originally a Czech military (different serial system). The Germans sold many Czech military rifles to Romania and this was probably one of them. If your rifle was made in 1940 it should be so dated on reciever ring. I do not think the dated ones were scrubbed, only the King creasted ones were. There are the C series exports for unknown country, (bring backs from WW11 pacific reported)--- E series, unknown---P series China, Japan, (some kept for Czech forces)---R series, Romania and several contracts that had no series letter at all. Peter------- Your rail marking is thus: Cs.Brojovka is (Czech.Slovakia Arms Factory) AKC.SPOL. (Limited or Inc.) VBrne (at Brno). The spelling of Brno only seems to change when the V (at) is used. I do think the Germans also use the Brne spelling. According to my source (article by Marion Mericle, Military Rifle Journal) The AKC.SPOL. is usually only A.S. and the longer one is seldom seen on a Lion crested rifle, he reports seeing only one. I also have one a 1936 accepted rifle marked exactly like yours, except the Brojovka is spelled Zbrojovka. Recheck your spelling.
peter duncan		#9	[-]
Posts: 11 Jan 17 13 1:21 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Gad-so many letters and they don't make sense- I've got the rifle right here in my lap and youre right lw it reads- Cs.ZBROJOVKA AKC.SPOL.VBRNE and underneath VZ-24.VZ means model, right? Well I know that much at least. Hey, this is getting interesting you guys. Bought a couple of accessories for her, sight protector, sling, those little security screws were gone so I got some, cleaning rod, picking up a bayonet, Libertytree has them for $55.00. Got my eye on a couple more, one is a VZ-98N in real clean looking shape, right now it's at $200.00 but there's a week left till the auction closes, guess we'll wait and see where it goes. Well thanks again gentlemen for all the feedback, I'm learning some good stuff. Pete
lwdavis		#10	[-]
Posts: 649 Jan 17 13 1:17 PM Veteran member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Actually with the Z or with the B (both spellings were used but the B one on different side rail marking) it still means "arms factory". There were many different side rail markings on Czech rifles over the years.
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again w/ the serial number

again w/ the serial number